i am not saying the sword is a good design because it is definitely not! its just that the fact that it has no hilt or guard maybe has some sort of hidden meaning that tessai and urahara know about. And tessai was unable to cover up his sense of shock when he saw it.
Are you saying that Zangetsu is like a Hollow-type? 'Cause that would be wrong I guess. The thread saying something about it
I'm official.
It makes sense though, acctually.
Many times, people have mentioned that Ichigo is all about offence, attacking in the hope of overwhelming his enemies. The lack of a handguard basically symbolises his (almost total) disregard for defence.
I remember watching a 'live-action' Maga movie where the badguy spent the entire movie gloating about the same thing - that his katana had no guard because he never used it to defend, since he could kill anyone in one stroke.
I generally find these little things have a lot more meaning to the Japanese that watch them, since it's based on their culture and not ours. For example, the females cutting their long hair short intentionally, Inoe having her hair cut off by other people and not growing it back until she found her own resolve again - that kinda thing that we sometimes miss. (and by we, I mean westerners.)
But yeah, that.
------------------
On topic;
About Urahara not knowing it was Aizen specifically - ok, that's kinda a given, but the intent of my post was to point out that he was hiding from SOMEONE, just that we all know that Aizen is the badguy so if I wrote, 'Urahara was hiding from some unknown badguy' we'd probably get a flood of posts like, "You fool! do you watch the show? AIZEN is the bad guy!"
Anyway, I stand by what I've said - though I don't specifically remember anyone saying that the Gigai will turn you into a human, just prevent you from recovering your Shinigami powers - so I'll just assume you know what you're talking about.
More to the point, I believe that the Pit is the cause, for my reasons already stated, and that it was unintentional on the part of Urahara (the man was improvising, ffs - how many humans has he had to train into super Shinigami fighters with hidden powers needing fear to unlock?)
now when did i say that. I just said that zangetsu is something different from other soul slayers. Now ichigo can be called a hybrid so maybe that is why zangetsu is the way it is, unique and always in its released form. Just a suggestionOriginally posted by: Zinobi
Are you saying that Zangetsu is like a Hollow-type? 'Cause that would be wrong I guess. The thread saying something about it
I'll edit this clean if I find out I was mistaken, but I was watching the first 25 episodes with someone to try and catch them up with the series, and I believe I noticed something that I think others have missed:
Ichigo showed some Hollow power during the Ichigo/Renji fight. Before people throw sharp metal objects at me, check the episode where Ichigo loses Rukia's powers- I think 17? Compare the sequence when he blacks out and suddenly becomes an ass-kicking fiend to the Ichigo/Bykauga(spl) fight.
He gets a very bad wound (life/death) and starts fading out
Suddenly starts kicking Renji around with vastly improved fighting skills, leaping about, muttering "Hella" (This might be a translation thing the first time around, but still- only time he's used the phrase)
In his most recent fight, he was heavily wounded, fading out....
Fades out.
Hollow-Ichi shows up with vastly improved fighting skills, leaping about, Hella, etc
(I must have blinked or I'm going senile, but after looking at it again no clear cut proof that his Hollow came out in the renji fight- I do still hold that it's very similar and while it(his hollow side) didn't come all the way out, it certainly influenced his attitude and combat skills.)
See I'm reading all these posts on hollows and their creation, and nobody is making a connection to the fact that the ability to become a hollow is inside any soul. Yes the catalyst is the destruction of the Spirit Chain, but that doesn't mean that somehow, magically (of course this is anime we're talking about) they become a hollow- it's a matter of something within, their Id, being unleashed.
(Id= the one of the three divisions of the psyche in psychoanalytic theory that is completely unconscious and is the source of psychic energy derived from instinctual needs and drives.
Rukia explained that Hollows are pluses that become pure *instinct*, right?)
So wouldn't it stand to reason that Ichigo's Id(or his hollow side, whatever you want to call it) has always been there, but subdued until brought to the surface during the pit? I'm just bringing this up because I see a lot of verbage saying he didn't have a Hollow inside of him until after the pit, which if I'm correct on the above, that's not true.
Well, this part of your theory doesn't actually mean much in practice. From Byakuya's reaction (and we have to remember he's an old Taichou and probably has seen a lot) we can deduce that what happened to Ichigo during the fight is something quite rare indeed. So, even if everybody has the sleeping hollow inside them, it should certainly remain sleeping, unless the soul becomes a wholehearted hollow.Originally posted by: Jurojin
See I'm reading all these posts on hollows and their creation, and nobody is making a connection to the fact that the ability to become a hollow is inside any soul. Yes the catalyst is the destruction of the Spirit Chain, but that doesn't mean that somehow, magically (of course this is anime we're talking about) they become a hollow- it's a matter of something within, their Id, being unleashed.
So wouldn't it stand to reason that Ichigo's Id(or his hollow side, whatever you want to call it) has always been there, but subdued until brought to the surface during the pit? I'm just bringing this up because I see a lot of verbage saying he didn't have a Hollow inside of him until after the pit, which if I'm correct on the above, that's not true.
The question is just that: Why Ichigo's hollow side can surface and begin to kick ass even though Ichigo is not a hollow. Is it because Ichigo is some sort of hybrid (and why if he is) or is it something else, and when and how he became what he is.
@Kraco:
Maybe it's just semantics, but it points out that the pit most likely had nothing to do with his hybridization, especially if I'm right on the top part and he did, if sub consciously, throw out some of his Hollow power out during the Ichigo/Renji fight. A lot of the recent posts are focusing on his trial in the pit, and I'm putting this out to say maybe (again, once/if I get proof) they're focusing on the wrong spot. You know, a new idea (I believe).
well i didnt mean you were saying that i just thought that was where you were going with it.Originally posted by: splash
now when did i say that. I just said that zangetsu is something different from other soul slayers. Now ichigo can be called a hybrid so maybe that is why zangetsu is the way it is, unique and always in its released form. Just a suggestionOriginally posted by: Zinobi
Are you saying that Zangetsu is like a Hollow-type? 'Cause that would be wrong I guess. The thread saying something about it
I'm official.
--------------------------Originally posted by: Jurojin
@Kraco:
Maybe it's just semantics, but it points out that the pit most likely had nothing to do with his hybridization, especially if I'm right on the top part and he did, if sub consciously, throw out some of his Hollow power out during the Ichigo/Renji fight. A lot of the recent posts are focusing on his trial in the pit, and I'm putting this out to say maybe (again, once/if I get proof) they're focusing on the wrong spot. You know, a new idea (I believe).
what you are telling is correct in some parts just like you said in ep 17 ichigo go's "Beserk"
with could be his hollow ( or shadow) side awakening.
i can understand the rest to in relation with ichigo
we didnt actuely see ichigo change just that he got a (BIG freaking) boost in power in ep 17
so most of us are as you said focusing on the wrong spot.
you are right about the facial expression in ep 17 and during his fight with Kenpachy (or something like that) they do look alike
actuely if you look closely you could say the are alike 99%
thats my asumsion right now
( oke oke i know my spelling sucks )
Uhhh, when you say 'Faces' are you talking about his facial expression, or the big energy face that appears, becasue during the Ichigo/Renji fight in ep 17, it's not there and Ichigo always has that cocky expression on his face whenever he thinks he can't lose.
I'm not saying your theory is invalid or anything like that, just that it seems unlikely that his 'Hollow' side has anything to do with his normal power. He is insanely strong normally, just he can't controll it, all we've seen his hollow half do is use his full power to the fullest, so to speak, it doesn't nessecarily give him a power boost.
Remember that Ichigo already had Byakuya beat on his own, his Hollow side only came out because he supidly dragged on the fight and the strain of the Bankai was getting to him - while I will admit that Hollow Ichigo used some techniques that Ichigo can't, (like stretching limbs) we've seen that Hollows have all sorts of weird abilites and it isn't nessecarily a power boost as I mentioned earlier.
The ONLY thing out of the ordinary (aside form the massive power boost) in the ep17 fight is a red flash (Like the red Fang move Hollow Ichi uses) )when Ichigo attacks Renji but I can't see anything that insignificant and probably unintentional being forshadowing.
For the moment, all we can really prove is that Ichigo is rediculously strong and while his body/spirit cannot contain that amount of energy yet, His hollow half has no problems doing so and can use his power to full effect.
As far as I am concerned, the boosts in power in ep17 and against the Menos are simply explained by Urahara; 'The Soul most easily extracts power when it is in danger of destruction' which is the basis of all his training techniques.
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