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Thread: Sword Art Online

  1. #41
    Awesome user with default custom title Uchiha Barles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalobiian View Post
    Whether he called out the weapon or not didn't matter, since most of them were dead set on him cheating anyway. Explanations woiuld have been palmed off. The only thing to do was to ride with their emotions and become the biggest bad guy they were making him out to be. It wasn't just that either, he managed to add to his speech that the entire group here is now better than any beta tester so they'll no longer suspect each other when someone performs well. He new that the group had to stay together if they were to survive. As for himself.. well he's been soloing since the start anyway. He can always join a mob whenever he needs to anyway. No one's going to refuse help from supposedly the strongest Beta tester in SAO (if they believe the story in the first place).
    I simply disagree that most of them were dead set on him cheating. One guy is dead set on him cheating, Kibaou. He's racist against beta testers xD. What a lot of the others seem to be, is easily swayed. This means that a solid argument that's simple to get could sway them in the proper direction. We saw this happen already when Egil mentioned the booklet of data compiled by the beta testers. That put Kibaou right in his place after he tried to spread his paranoia the first time and it united everyone else.

    After the fight, Kibaou came with his accusations, which are essentially the same, just this time, he could pinpoint a beta tester. Egil and Kirito on the other hand, had much more ammunition to argue and defend. First of all, the information concerning the boss and his tactics were accurate save for the weapon change, which Kirito noticed and warned about as the fight unfolded. That's why yelling it out and people being able confirm that he did was important. It shows that he was as forthcoming to the group as he could be. Second, Kirito realized that Diabel was a beta tester, and its clear that Diabel did do something noble in being relatively selfless in the use of his knowledge, even if he attempted to get the bonus phat lewt for himself. Third, he risked a lot himself and took much damage that fight, so it's not like he didn't contribute and risk much. Save for Diabel, he was the most important factor in them leaving that fight alive. All this would show that at least some of the beta testers, the ones present at that fight in particular, weren't terrible people.

    Basically he was in a very good position to go up against Kibaou and sway the group. That position was solidified with Egil and whoever else had the wherewithal to listen and think. They would then argue on his behalf as well. All this actually gives Kirito the upper hand. Furthermore, if he decided to go on the offensive, he was in a very good position to put Kibaou in his place once and for all.

    "This is the second time you've tried to spread your fear and bigotry, and the second time your cowardice exposed. I think I speak for all of us when I say we've had enough of that."

    Again, this is because I did not see anything in the episode indicating that people other than Kibaou were dead set against Kirito and beta testers. They did not seem to be consumed by a mob mentality at that point. Even so though, lets assume Kirito's attempt to sway the group did fail. He *still* could've taken the path he ended up chosing after trying defend himself against the accusations.

    As far as the risk he's put himself in, I just don't think it's a good idea to make the world your enemy. News of the events of that fight and its aftermath is going to spread like wildfire. He'll have enemies from the group he was in, and he'll have many more enemies he hasn't even had a chance to meet yet.
    "You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it, your time has come. This time you will stand alone and fight for yourselves. Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood."

    - Inquisitor Czevak

  2. #42
    Family Friendly Mascot Buffalobiian's Avatar
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    On the other hand, I believe that all those arguments could have been used against him:

    The boss information was correct until his weapon was drawn
    -All a ploy to gain our trust

    Kirito yelled out that the attack wasn't as written
    -You didn't yell it out fast enough to save Diabel. It's just your farce to make it look like you warned him. Nothing was changed. You Beta Testers knew everything from the start.

    Third, he risked a lot himself and took much damage that fight, so it's not like he didn't contribute and risk much. Save for Diabel, he was the most important factor in them leaving that fight alive.

    -You knew the boss's attack patterns. There's no way you would have died. You joined this fight to get the final-attack bonus item. Diabel died. We're just lucky to be alive. Who knows how many of us you'll sacrifice for your plans in the next fight.

    The book kicked back off of the paranoid guy's arguments, but if Kirito tried arguing here it would have backfired.

    All the mob knows is that their leader died (who they didn't know was a beta tester, and Kirito doesn't want to reveal that neither) while following an apparently sound plan, and they've got someone surprisingly strong that they can pin the responsibility on.

    He'll have enemies from the group he was in, and he'll have many more enemies he hasn't even had a chance to meet yet.
    Why would they try to fight him and risk being killed?

    If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~

  3. #43
    Awesome user with default custom title Uchiha Barles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalobiian View Post
    On the other hand, I believe that all those arguments could have been used against him:

    The boss information was correct until his weapon was drawn
    -All a ploy to gain our trust

    Kirito yelled out that the attack wasn't as written
    -You didn't yell it out fast enough to save Diabel. It's just your farce to make it look like you warned him. Nothing was changed. You Beta Testers knew everything from the start.

    Third, he risked a lot himself and took much damage that fight, so it's not like he didn't contribute and risk much. Save for Diabel, he was the most important factor in them leaving that fight alive.

    -You knew the boss's attack patterns. There's no way you would have died. You joined this fight to get the final-attack bonus item. Diabel died. We're just lucky to be alive. Who knows how many of us you'll sacrifice for your plans in the next fight.

    The book kicked back off of the paranoid guy's arguments, but if Kirito tried arguing here it would have backfired.

    All the mob knows is that their leader died (who they didn't know was a beta tester, and Kirito doesn't want to reveal that neither) while following an apparently sound plan, and they've got someone surprisingly strong that they can pin the responsibility on.



    Why would they try to fight him and risk being killed?
    Oh, yes his points certainly could be contorted, but Kibaou would have to do way better than that. Everyone knew the attack patterns by the time they fought the boss. If they didn't read the booklet, that particular information was read to them from the booklet by Diabel. Furthermore, the sword having changed from Beta means that Kirito did NOT know ahead of time how the boss would attack at that point in the fight, and he took a near deadly blow on account of that. Besides those relatively feeble attempts, everything else is grasping for straws. No one halfway sensible would see the information in the book being correct save for the new sword, AND realizing that the sword was different from what was in the beta, would come to the conclusion that the book was a simply a ploy to gain trust. You can't expect the beta testers to know of things that were not present in the beta. And each point Kirito is able to debunk would make every other point (of the ones you mentioned) weaker because they depend on each other in that they're mostly attacks against Kirito's character. It's just too easy to make this guy look stupid because the strength of anything he could pull is simply weaker than what Kirito could pull.

    As to why Kirito doesn't want to reveal that Diabel was a beta tester...I have no clue why. It would be to his advantage if this argument took place. You miiiiiiiiiiiiiiight be right that Kirito trying to argue the point you mentioned would've failed. But Kirito wouldn't be arguing alone, Egil would've helped, and so would anyone else who could listen and make a decision after having listened. Most of the group showed that ability when Egil first argued against Kibaou. That's a big point here. Kirito's stronger position along with support from the more reasonable members of the group would've just ruined Kibaou. What charisma Kirito might've lacked, Egil had in abundance.

    As far as why people would attack him...I'm not sure. If player vs. player exists in this game though, I would assume that there are rewards for participating in it. Those rewards would be incentive for people to attack him. For example, maybe that black coat he got from the boss is an awesome item. An equally cocksure player might attack him to try and take it from his corpse (if that's allowed). Or maybe, a group of people who otherwise wouldn't attack him might think that he doesn't deserve that item because of his deception, and that item's power is better used by a group that's not as horrible as he is. They'd gang bang him for it, particularly since he's a solo player. Since power is directly related to survivability in that game, taking powerful items from opponents is incentive to attack them.

    @Kraco below: With the exception of notoriety, there is nothing you mentioned that he couldn't have gained without becoming a focal point for everyone's fear and anger. His strength was established by that fight, and it is that stregth that strong characters are going to take note of. If playing the game solo would make them take even more notice of his strength and this is a goal of his, he could just drop the group and keep going through the game solo...without having everything think he's a douche. As of right now, I just don't see any benefit to him to be seen as evil, mean, etc. He could have done the solo thing without all that.
    Last edited by Uchiha Barles; Mon, 07-16-2012 at 06:36 AM.
    "You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it, your time has come. This time you will stand alone and fight for yourselves. Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood."

    - Inquisitor Czevak

  4. #44
    Vampiric Minion Kraco's Avatar
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    Considering how Kirito was so quick to go solo from the beginning, I reckon he did what he did here because he wanted to do it and it suits his ego. Maybe he really wanted to divert attention away from beta testers at large like some martyr, but that doesn't need to be the biggest reason. Now he's not just any nameless victim in the game anymore, but something more, an individual with a dangerous reputation. With log-out missing, this is now their life, so he might as well make something out of it. He might have made enemies especially among the petty types seeking to blame anybody for their misery, but, like Bill said, this also means he might get the attention of strong types as well, if they judge him useful in bigger fights. It's better to form a group with tough players, not weaklings if your life depends on it. He might miss chances to hoard more last hit bonuses, but that desire didn't end too well for Diabel.

    Only the petty suckers would immediately believe everything he said, anyway. More potent players out there would take it with a grain of digital salt.

  5. #45
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    Mobs (player, not monster) are stupid. Do not expect them to be the least bit rational.

    The best part about this episode was Asuna eating the bread, and that was only because I knew her face and had to imagine her expression under the hood.
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  6. #46
    The last hit bonus seems like a really lame game mechanic if all the bosses are going to require team based takedowns like what we saw in ep 2. However, we know the programmer is a sadist so in that regard it makes perfect sense, giving unfair loot distribution that encourages behavior like Diabel's is just another mindscrew for the poor players.

    It's been said already but the whole 'I'm a beater' speech doesn't seem to make sense right now, but it'll probably get explained in short order. Unfortunately this show has done a good job so far of making me crave the next ep as soon as the credits start rolling.

  7. #47
    Vampiric Minion Kraco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukimura View Post
    The last hit bonus seems like a really lame game mechanic if all the bosses are going to require team based takedowns like what we saw in ep 2. However, we know the programmer is a sadist so in that regard it makes perfect sense, giving unfair loot distribution that encourages behavior like Diabel's is just another mindscrew for the poor players.
    It's indeed bad business for temporary groups and teamwork such as we saw in this episode, but thus it would in fact encourage forming a real group by people who can trust each other. Because then they could simply redistribute the gear among themselves. They could even try to distribute the last strikes themselves, but if all the bosses are as strong as this one, that might rarely be a viable option.

    Like I said earlier, there's no merit whatsoever for Kirito to stick around these weaklings (aside from the beauty). While I think his speech was half about boosting his ego (including a martyrdom), I still think he also fancies a reputation, even notorious. In any case it was within his interests to get rid of these people who were of little use in the fight but of much annoyance outside of it. This should have taken care of that. The only thing that would have made me like his character development more would have been to grab Asuna and tell the losers that he will take the chick as well, not only the last hit bonus.

  8. #48
    Kirito isn't really a people person, so this was probably the easier way out for him.

  9. #49

  10. #50
    It wasn't much Archangel's Avatar
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    As rushed as it was, amazing episode.

    I hope they eventually stabilize the rhythm though, this could grow to be really tiresome.

  11. #51
    I thought it was really weird how they left off with him being a solo player in episode 2 and in the beginning of episode 3 he joins a party then guild. Other than that, it was an amazing episode.

  12. #52
    Awesome user with default custom title Uchiha Barles's Avatar
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    Oh man I loled xD. T'was a hearty lol from a deep place! I nearly laughed to death when that guy in the light brown cloak got pick axed to death. It was like those idiots never played an adventure game before, or saw a fantasy movie. "Oooooh! Secret door with an unguarded treasure chest? Not a single monster present up to this point? How lucky are *we*?!?" It was obvious that guild was going to get slaughtered with all the carefree attitude going unchecked and Kirito telling Sachi she wouldn't die (lol), but I didn't think it'd be so funny.

    That aside, pacing is really killing this anime. I haven't read the light novel this apparently comes from, but watching that last episode still felt like watching something like, say, Unlimited Bladeworks. Kirita's relationship with the guild members needed to be developed further for there to be a real emotional impact at their loss (besides whatever emotion you feel when laughing at a joke). There was a group PvP fight that really should've been shown in detail, and Kleine crying because he wants Kirito to live....seems unfounded. I don't see why, based on how and how much their relationship developed, he would care enough to shed a single tear. I'm sure a better job was done in the light novel, but again, there's a severe lack in exposition here. Everything is present for a very good story, but not enough of these things are developed, and it's a shame.
    Last edited by Uchiha Barles; Sat, 07-21-2012 at 10:41 PM. Reason: Mixed up a couple of names that might've made the post confusing, so I fixed it.
    "You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it, your time has come. This time you will stand alone and fight for yourselves. Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood."

    - Inquisitor Czevak

  13. #53
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    This should have been longer than 26 episodes, period.
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    Peace.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha Barles View Post
    Oh man I loled xD. T'was a hearty lol from a deep place! I nearly laughed to death when that guy in the light brown cloak got pick axed to death. It was like those idiots never played an adventure game before, or saw a fantasy movie. "Oooooh! Secret door with an unguarded treasure chest? Not a single monster present up to this point? How lucky are *we*?!?" It was obvious that guild was going to get slaughtered with all the carefree attitude going unchecked and Kirito telling Sachi she wouldn't die (lol), but I didn't think it'd be so funny.

    That aside, pacing is really killing this anime. I haven't read the light novel this apparently comes from, but watching that last episode still felt like watching something like, say, Unlimited Bladeworks. Keita's relationship with the guild members needed to be developed further for there to be a real emotional impact at their loss (besides whatever emotion you feel when laughing at a joke). There was a group PvP fight that really should've been shown in detail, and Keita crying because he wants Kirito to live....seems unfounded. I don't see why, based on how and how much their relationship developed, he would care enough to shed a single tear. I'm sure a better job was done in the light novel, but again, there's a severe lack in exposition here. Everything is present for a very good story, but not enough of these things are developed, and it's a shame.
    You're using the wrong names a lot. You mean Kirito's relationship with the guild members (instead of Keita's relationship). And you mean Klein crying when he wants Kirito to live (not Keita again). Keita was the leader of the Black Cats guild that jumped off.

  15. #55
    Awesome user with default custom title Uchiha Barles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animus View Post
    You're using the wrong names a lot. You mean Kirito's relationship with the guild members (instead of Keita's relationship). And you mean Klein crying when he wants Kirito to live (not Keita again). Keita was the leader of the Black Cats guild that jumped off.
    My apologies, not sure what I was smoking. Editing that now.
    "You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it, your time has come. This time you will stand alone and fight for yourselves. Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood."

    - Inquisitor Czevak

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha Barles View Post
    That aside, pacing is really killing this anime. I haven't read the light novel this apparently comes from, but watching that last episode still felt like watching something like, say, Unlimited Bladeworks. Kirita's relationship with the guild members needed to be developed further for there to be a real emotional impact at their loss (besides whatever emotion you feel when laughing at a joke). There was a group PvP fight that really should've been shown in detail, and Kleine crying because he wants Kirito to live....seems unfounded. I don't see why, based on how and how much their relationship developed, he would care enough to shed a single tear. I'm sure a better job was done in the light novel, but again, there's a severe lack in exposition here. Everything is present for a very good story, but not enough of these things are developed, and it's a shame.
    I think it should be pretty obvious that they are rushing through these early arcs to leave space to cover the later levels where stakes are a lot higher to cover those in more detail. As exposition episodes, these three episodes I consider achieves their point, the first episode gets them into the world and establishes their premises. The second episode is the fateful meeting of Kirito and Asuna. The third episode I think will provide the motivation for Kirito to become a lone wolf, since it would be lame if the only reason was because he is a beater. So take this into account and watch on, for sure these are rushed, but in episodes to come, when the gear is up a few notches, you will be glad they rushed these. But on the other hand, if on episode 13 they end up doing a beach episode, it will serious e-smack them.

  17. #57
    Vampiric Minion Kraco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shinta|hikari View Post
    This should have been longer than 26 episodes, period.
    With this pacing it seems like they must be aiming for 13 episodes. The beginning of this episode was simply unreal considering how the previous episode ended. It's really killing this, like Barles said. I don't know if this is still supposed to be some kind of intro to the world, but it certainly feels like that. I really hope it will slow down and start to build solid progress and character development.

    But that being said, just like with the second episode, I was actually pretty pleased how this third episode as well pushed Kirito toward the lonely wolf position in the end. I hope the Christmas card didn't totally shatter that but only made him value his own life a bit better. I like Kirito taking risks but not risking his life for sentimental purposes of no concrete value to anybody.

  18. #58
    Procacious Polymath Ryllharu's Avatar
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    Filler or no, rushed or no, as a stand alone episode, this was a damn good episode. Leaps and bounds better than last episode.

  19. #59
    Awesome user with default custom title NeoCybercoin's Avatar
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    Episode 3 and he is most likely already in his mid 50's. Anyone know the level cap? Because if he keeps on leveling like this he'd reach 100 in no time.

  20. #60
    Burning out, no really... David75's Avatar
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    I wonder when they'll be faced with the obligation to kill each other for survival...

    All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.

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