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Thread: Spoiler tag debate.

  1. #1
    AdmiralKage DarthEnderX's Avatar
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    Spoiler tag debate.

    Continuing from the Hunter X Hunter thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraco View Post
    Our rules forbid spoilers, so what use do we have for spoiler tags?
    This exact situation I guess. Where someone wants to talk about the preview, but not everyone wants to read about it.

    I also like using spoiler tags for when I want to post a huge image, but I don't want to stretch out the forum for anyone. It lets someone look at the image, then close the spoiler to hide the image and put the forum back to it's normal dimensions.

  2. #2
    There won't be spoiler tags, it's been debated for a decade now.

    But feel free to discuss among yourselves... but, there won't be any.

  3. #3
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    Won't doing the manual text spoiler tag be fine? Like,

    Spoiler from preview:





    Whatever.

    Spunky.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by shinta|hikari View Post
    Won't doing the manual text spoiler tag be fine? Like,

    Spoiler from preview:





    Whatever.
    You can do whatever you want, but it's not a substitute for a spoiler tag... as in, if it's something that is considered by our rules as a spoiler, putting it that way won't save you.

    As for the previews situation, since it's not considered spoiler in Gotwoot, you can surely do it that way if you want... but not required.

    As for those that don't care to watch previews, that should be a good compromise for them, even if unneeded.

    What I don't want to see though is a bunch of discussion and back and forth arguments all being hidden that way just to be "prudent", because that defeats the purposes of not wanting to have spoiler tags around in the first place.

  5. #5
    Photoshop Hero Alhuin's Avatar
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    I'm not necessarily for or against the idea of spoiler tags, but I am curious as to why there is such a vehement stance against them on the part of the mods. Like, to straight up, without a doubt, regardless of input from the people who use the forums, completely deny something that really doesn't seem like that big of a deal just perplexes me. Something must've happened in years past to make you (all (assuming there are multiple people)) feel this way. Would it be too much to shed some light on that?

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  6. #6
    Linerunner MFauli's Avatar
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    So, Munsu, what´s the argument against spoiler tags? I must have been absent when that was discussed.

    From how you worded it above, I think you´re taking the "spoiler-tags" name too literal. We don´t want spoiler-tags so we can freely talk about actual spoilers, like talking about what happens in Attack on Titan after the anime-end. Rather, we want those spoiler-tags as a comfortable, quick tool to hide text that not everybody necessarily wants to see. Preview talk is the main reason here. Another example, and extremely common in other boards, is when you´re talking about a videogame. When a new title has been released, "it´s all out". But it is common courtesy not to talk freely about plot points or surprising/fun character scenes, because other player might not yet have reached that point in the game. So you use spoiler-tags, even though you could argue that everything is out in the public and thus naturally "not a spoiler".

    So, my argument would be that talking about previews in anime is the same as talking about mid-to-late content in a videogame. It´s polite not spoil it, even though it technically cannot be called spoiler. Therefore spoiler tags.

    The first fictional loli that made me fall for her

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MFauli View Post
    So, Munsu, what´s the argument against spoiler tags? I must have been absent when that was discussed.
    Don't care to waste more time on this as it is, but the main gist of it is unneeded when Gotwoot has a hard line policy against spoilers in the first place regardless if spoiler tags are in place or not. What you'll find then is a bunch of discussion hidden by spoiler tags just because people are unsure of what should be included in tags or not, so they go with the tags "just to be safe". It's a pain in the ass.

    To give you an example, you go to Animesuki, and you can sometimes go full pages with all the content hidden by spoiler tags... and half of it shouldn't have been in the first place.

    It just plain sucks.

    And that's just ONE issue I have with it.

    And then you find the spoiler tags mine, because you just have to risk opening the spoiler tag because it's usage is so inconsistent that you feel confident that what's inside a spoiler isn't really a spoiler for you.. then bam, you get hit with a spoiler because you couldn't resist...

    And so on...

    Yes, spoiler tags can be useful... but they can also be a pain in the ass, an unneeded pain in the ass that will transform the nature of GotWoot discussions in a manner I don't care for. I might as well go to Animesuki and be done with it (and I never cared for how they go about discussing stuff).

  8. #8
    Vampiric Minion Kraco's Avatar
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    The points Bud mentioned bother me also greatly, and I've experienced them elsewhere in an identical manner (though that place is now most likely dead). To add to his list, I might mention they make moderating the forum harder in a whole bunch of ways: 1) In the heat of the moment people might feel they can spoil a little since its in spoiler tags, 2) More people will skip reporting spoilers (and other stuff) since they will skip reading spoiler tagged stuff, 3) People might not actually report tagged spoilers even after reading them, instead blaming themselves for revealing the spoiler under the tags, 4) For mods themselves it's an extra mechanical burden to go through a thread clicking all spoiler tags.

    Though to be honest this forum is half-dead and spoilers get reported maybe twice a year... So, I guess for me personally the real reason is that I simply learned to hate the tags when reading that other forum, which had no spoiler rules whatsoever, apart from suggesting people use the tags to hide everything they though might spoil something for somebody. Sometimes most posts in a thread were spoiler tagged, and you never knew what was inside them, but reading the forum was impossible without doing it. So, you read an episode discussion thread, clicking the spoiler tag every time somebody had something to say about the current episode (because it would be a spoiler for somebody who hadn't seen the ep yet, but was still reading the fricking episode specific thread, go figure), and then, bam, suddenly what was inside the tenth spoiler tagged post wasn't anymore stuff from the episode at all, but stuff from much further down the game the anime was based on. And that was perfectly okay because it was spoiler tagged. Yeah, I learned to hate the things.

  9. #9
    Procacious Polymath Ryllharu's Avatar
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    A series of spoiler tags intermixed in a thread kill discussion, for all of the reasons Kraco and Munsu detail. I've seen it (and participated) elsewhere in forums that are now dead, and it was a contributing factor.

    We already have a problem with limited discussions these days. Let's not exacerbate it.

    edit:
    Since the old threads are scattered all over the place:
    Round 1
    Round 2
    Last edited by Ryllharu; Fri, 02-28-2014 at 04:30 AM.

  10. #10
    AdmiralKage DarthEnderX's Avatar
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    I've literally never had these problems on any forum I frequent. I've never had spoiler tags kill a conversation before.

    Like Alhuin said, I feel like I'm missing some kind of specific event that happened to the rest of you or something.

    It seems like a little basic common sense with labeling solves all the problems you guys are describing.

    Ex.
    __________________________________________________ __________

    Blah, blah, blah, that fight was so awesome, my favorite part was when he did that thing!

    Preview Spoilers:
    [spoiler]Oh man, it looks like that guy shows up to save the day![/spoiler]
    __________________________________________________ __________

    or
    __________________________________________________ __________

    This game is great. The world is incredibly well realized and I really enjoy the combined guns and magic gameplay.

    Story spoilers:
    [spoiler]When you find out that the girl was his daughter, and that he was secretly the villain all along? My mind was blown![/spoiler]
    __________________________________________________ __________


    I can clearly see there what the spoiler pertains to, so I'm aware before I click it whether I'm caught up to the point where I can participate or not.

    The only situation where this ban makes sense to me is the anime/manga divide, because if spoilers tags were allowed in anime discussions about the manga, you'd just have a bunch of manga readers having manga discussions in the anime threads.

  11. #11
    Vampiric Minion Kraco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthEnderX View Post
    It seems like a little basic common sense with labeling solves all the problems you guys are describing.
    Common sense, huh? We have here some members for whom even marking they are the first to talk about the new episode is difficult. I'm not demanding posting a link like has been a tradition, but just typing at least the fresh episode number at the top of their post and then pressing Enter a few times is seemingly too much. Instead I'm waiting for the HorribleSubs release or whatever is the most common fast one, yet somebody here has watched the stream or some release I've never seen before, and goes ahead and the first words of his post are the biggest secret revelation the episode will have. I accidentally read it because I believe the new episode isn't even out yet and thus assume the person will still be talking about the previous week's episode. No rules have been broken, but it's still a dick move in my book.

    And I'm supposed to trust in a consistently stylish use of spoiler tags?

  12. #12
    Banned darkshadow's Avatar
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    Why is this thread still open, this stuff has been debated countless times as Ryll mentioned; just close these garbage threads as soon as they show up.
    -----------------

  13. #13
    AdmiralKage DarthEnderX's Avatar
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    Cause the mods told me to create it in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraco View Post
    And I'm supposed to trust in a consistently stylish use of spoiler tags?
    If you're already being spoiled WITHOUT spoiler tags, do you honestly thing the existence of spoiler tags is going to cause you to get spoiled MORE somehow?

  14. #14
    Linerunner MFauli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkshadow View Post
    Why is this thread still open, this stuff has been debated countless times as Ryll mentioned; just close these garbage threads as soon as they show up.
    Yeah, FUCK other people´s interests, right? What is it with your aggressive posting style? Unneeded much.

    The first fictional loli that made me fall for her

  15. #15
    Procacious Polymath Ryllharu's Avatar
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    Lock this thread. The stance of the admin/mod team has been consistent for 5 years and two upgrades.

  16. #16
    Vampiric Minion Kraco's Avatar
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    Why do you people think threads are locked? They are locked when they go offtopic for good, when they turn too hostile, when the topic has expired (such as a birthday thread somebody digs up a month too late), or they broke the rules in whatever way. Sometimes they are also locked if the OP requested it.

    They aren't locked because somebody random thinks the thread is useless. This thread is probably that since the spoiler rules are about as likely to change as North Korea adopting democracy any time soon, but if this clears the situation in DE's mind, then why not? Even if things aren't likely to change, there's nothing bad about challenging them in a civilized manner. A forum is nothing without active members.

  17. #17
    Wtf this is like discussing that people that saw the teaser of the hobit part 3 would ruin the experience for the other ones. Or someone that has read the review that appears on the cover of books of being spoiling the book for the one who still hasnt read it.

    Someone broke a nail and wanted to discuss over anything. It has been next episode review like it could had been that studies should be banned from releasing trailers or even posters.

    What the hell to say the truth I want everyone that wrote at the HxH thread banned cause I left the episode at the minute 12 because Its my motto to not watch them completely and they spoiled the rest of it without any respect for my habits!
    Last edited by Edort4; Sat, 03-01-2014 at 06:09 AM.
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  18. #18
    Banned darkshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MFauli View Post
    Yeah, FUCK other people´s interests, right? What is it with your aggressive posting style? Unneeded much.
    Yes, fuck your garbage interests and unwillingness to use the search function.
    -----------------

  19. #19
    Photoshop Hero Alhuin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edort4 View Post
    Wtf this is like discussing that people that saw the teaser of the hobit part 3 would ruin the experience for the other ones. Or someone that has read the review that appears on the cover of books of being spoiling the book for the one who still hasnt read it.

    Someone broke a nail and wanted to discuss over anything. It has been next episode review like it could had been that studious should be banned from releasing trailers or even posters.

    What the hell to say the truth I want everyone that wrote at the HxH thread banned cause I left the episode at the minute 12 because Its my motto to not watch them completely and they spoiled the rest of it without any respect for my habits!
    ....What?

    To stay on topic, when I originally posted, I didn't think about the "additional mechanical burden" mods would have when doing their jobs, so I'll concede that that is a justifiable reason to not implement them. Not to mention that I totally forgot how rare common sense is. I still feel like the hatred and unwillingness to budge might be a little bit of an over-reaction, but I understand the situation now. Thanks for providing some input.

    It's dangerous to go alone. Take Nep.

  20. #20
    AdmiralKage DarthEnderX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edort4 View Post
    What the hell to say the truth I want everyone that wrote at the HxH thread banned cause I left the episode at the minute 12 because Its my motto to not watch them completely and they spoiled the rest of it without any respect for my habits!
    So...you actually think stopping watching the episode AFTER the credits before the thing that is specifically intended to be a spoiler for the next episode somehow equates to stopping in the middle of the episode?

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