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Thread: Shokugeki no Soma

  1. #21
    Awesome user with default custom title NeoCybercoin's Avatar
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    I loved this episode. Mainly because it showed everyone even if they didn't show faces.
    Megumi though....just too damn cute.

  2. #22
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    Kirito's VA did a great job. I didn't expect it to work.
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  3. #23
    Burning out, no really... David75's Avatar
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    Souma should have had a E for that Boeuf Bourguignon, at first sight alone. No need to even taste it.

    I might be wrong, as I only eat that dish 3 times a year, in restaurants or many home cooking events and do not prepare it myself.
    But here's why for the on sight immediate death:
    Meat size
    Lack of important vegetables and lardons (similar to small bacon bits), potatoes

    Meat size:
    I've never seen a Boeuf Bourguignon prepared with a single huge meat portion.
    Why is that? Well, the meat part used for bourguigon has long fibers, lacks fat and is a bit dry and hard. You need smaller bits for the meat to be well cooked and more edible. I'd say cubes around 1/2 inch, less than 1 inch
    Also, the meat part felt like a steak at first (extremely wrong), then felt a lot thicher in the plate...
    Vegetables
    You need at least carrots, why? Because it's a dish from Burgundy with Burgundy wine for the sauce/cooking (Bourguignons are people from Bourgogne/Burgundy).
    Carrots give a subtle sugary taste that lowers the sour taste from the cooked wine.
    Potatoes are important because they absorb part of the sauce and become incredibly good. Also, this is a dish for cold days, so carbs are important (that's why you can accomodate with pasta too, although it's a bit different)
    Lardons are also very important because they bring some fat to help with dryness and cold days too.
    They bring lots of collagens too, adding to the collagens brought by the beef. This gives incredible body to the sauce, putting tastes forward. Health hipsters love collagens.

    They didn't even mention wine did they? Why even bring a contest around Boeuf Bourguigon and forget the master element?

    I'm stopping here, I don't remember exactly how it turned out in the manga. But it feels like there's a clear lack of documentation here. It might be because it was the early days of the manga and the author didn't have resources for research, but for the anime they've had time so I can't let it pass.

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  4. #24
    Vampiric Minion Kraco's Avatar
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    I always thought the manga boasted a semi-believable sense of the dishes, but there's no way they could fool a Frenchman, huh? But then again, I would never call myself even a fledgling gourmet, having only some baking skills and very basic cooking skills, so I'm far from being anyone to really judge this manga one way or another. It was very interesting to read your analysis, nonetheless, David.

  5. #25
    Linerunner MFauli's Avatar
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    kinda hate that erina is already in lock-on of being Soumaīs love interest. Megumi is way better :>

    Best episode so far. The sexual presentation was kept minimal (although honey tentacles at the end, sigh) and I love it when Souma gets ready to cook. Now, Iīm not expert in terms of french cuisine, but even then I found it hard to believe that Souma could just do "whatever" and still get it all done in time. Surely thereīs a reason for cooking the meat the way itīs documented within the recipe. If honey was the end-all solution, itīd be the regular way of cooking that meat. And considering the reaction-sequence featuring honey so prominently, itīs fair to assume that the honey left a greater impact on the whole dishīs taste - a dish that didnīt even feature honey at all originally! Since the judge/teacher gave a strictly defined task, Souma should have failed simply because he didnīt deliver on what had been asked for.

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  6. #26
    Procacious Polymath Ryllharu's Avatar
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    The culinary science in this episode is sound. Honey and pineapple indeed contain proteolytic enzymes, which tenderize meat remarkably quickly.

    I've done pineapple and pork kabobs. Pineapple makes incredibly tender meat, which can otherwise get dried out on the kabob when you're trying to get the vegetables done. The pineapple does have to be fresh. Cooking and canning destroy the enzymes.

    It isn't the common way to do things, because as Soma pointed out, buying an entire pineapple for a dish is unfeasible in Japan where they are rarer (and likely also expensive), and honey isn't exactly cheap either.

  7. #27
    Linerunner MFauli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryllharu View Post
    It isn't the common way to do things, because as Soma pointed out, buying an entire pineapple for a dish is unfeasible in Japan where they are rarer (and likely also expensive), and honey isn't exactly cheap either.
    bs
    theyre the top of the world cooks. Time is a more important good to them than the price of, lol, honey.

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  8. #28
    Burning out, no really... David75's Avatar
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    Yes, honey does what was described. But the Boeuf Bourguignon is all about the heavy and tainting red wine that permeates through the meat and changes its color from inside out.

    And yes, to summarize he didn't do what was asked, so he failed. The only way out is that he made something so tasty Chappell smiled, despite sabotage and in a very short time. So it's more about rewarding all that.

    And yes, I'm a little maniac about food. Not necessarily an expert, not cooking either. But I like variety, testing/tasting, and understanding why it's good or why things are done the way they are.
    I also have quite a budget spent on food and mid to high end restaurants. Maybe that's why I'm a little dissatisfied with the adaptation when Erina trashes simple dishes and they are so imprecise about Bourguignon. But this only is anime after all.
    And they even reach overdosing climaxes like dopes on steroids. So I guess I should tone it down a little too.

  9. #29
    Family Friendly Mascot Buffalobiian's Avatar
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    Do post about the inaccuracies though. I like reading those.

    The food orgasms are fantastic. I love them now.

    Keep up the good work Soma.

    If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~

  10. #30
    Procacious Polymath Ryllharu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MFauli View Post
    Time is a more important good to them than the price of, lol, honey.
    For Erina and most of the other elitist students? Absolutely.

    For Souma who's family runs an affordable diner at the edge of a shopping district? Speed and cost are king. He looks down on the other students because they've never served people. Cooking to them is an art and they're at Tōtsuki for the fame. As the first episode showed, the worst thing in Souma's mind is not being able to serve a dish. So he's figured out a few ways to cut down on things on the off chance something goes wrong. Same with his scheme to fake the texture, juiciness, and flavor of meat. He's got the creative art part of it down too, as shown from his rice dish. That combination is why he's so confident, to the point of casual arrogance.

    Souma isn't used to serving dishes with truffle oil, gold leaf, and rare spices and herbs (that's why he was impressed by the spice rack in the classroom). He serves flawless executed dishes to common people. But that narrow area won't get him to the top of the culinary sphere, so his father forced him to go to Tōtsuki.

    Similarly, Tadokoro is from the rural countryside. Pineapples are out of the question to her, though honey may not be. Still, she's probably used to having all the time in the world to cook, so shortening the process doesn't occur to her.

    @David:
    Definitely love the critical analysis. Keep it up.

    Erina trashing the simple dishes and then getting weak in the knees from just rice, eggs and chicken broth is a lovely point. She's been spoiled by only the finest flavors and tastes all her life. Her reputation as having a God's Tongue is well-known, so the chefs that seek her out are only going to present her with, "the very best." For all her haughty bullshit, she probably hasn't been exposed to all that much.

    Just as an example, I'm willing to bet that Tadokoro has had real wasabi about as frequently as Erina, but Erina's was acquired with a fair amount of money, while Tadokoro probably harvested it herself for free. Or to make it less common, maybe whatever the equivalent to ramps is in Japan. Erina eats only the best leeks harvested in fabulous horticulture gardens, Tadokoro grew up on something with an even more delicate and refined flavor that her grandparents plucked out of the dirt.

  11. #31
    Burning out, no really... David75's Avatar
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    I got the manga page for the BB again, same huge beef part. Some asparagus, parsley, "champignons de paris" (Agaricus bisporus), and maybe some potatoes but the picture is so dark it's hard to tell. I guess I had the same dissatisfaction, but didn't bother commenting in the manga thread since I was so late in starting the manga.
    I wonder about the opportunity of asparagus and parsley in BB. Mushrooms (champignons de paris), I think I had it served and it did go well. Potatoes are a must.

    In both cases, we have cauliflower I didn"t mention before. It's probably one of the most difficult vegetables to use, because it's either too powerful and in a bad way, or just tastes like water and you don't care... I'm not too sure about its use in BB.
    In any case I do not remember having cauliflower in BB.

    Regarding Erina and Souma, we have the classic opposition of style. One is a Genius and hardcore worker, always at the heart of the cooking battle right where it counts, centimeters away from the taste of everyday life customers who are the hardest to please because they want a fast, good, easy to digest while fulfiling and cheap meal. The other being a Genius with Deus Ex powers who is at the top of the top of everything food.
    Thing is, they both need one another because they have to exchange the best they know to really access food Nirvana.
    Souma needs refinement, needs to access exceptionnal ingredients/foods/recipes without forgeting his qualities.
    Erina needs to understand there's lots of joy to be found even in seemingly simple foods.
    She would never try a "Pasteis de Nata" -Portuguese Egg tart- or Lasagna. Both seem so simple and so vulgar to her.
    But properly done, they need quite a level of control, you do not have room for mistake to make good ones. and good lasagna need lots of time to prepare... Good Pasteis need lots of precision, because you do not have lots of ingredients and it's easy to make average ones. Good ones on the other hand are hard to find.

    All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.

  12. #32
    Vampiric Minion Kraco's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure this story would have genuine European recipes and styles even if they use the names and there are supposedly European chefs around. Maybe they are like the Japanese versions of the dishes. Like oft when you go to a regular Chinese, Indian, or whatever restaurant in the West, the dishes might be somewhat adapted to the local tastes and customs, despite the owners of the restaurants being from their respective countries. That is, if the author actually does have a culinary hobby and this isn't all just a product of googling while the dude is munching on curry day in and day out.

  13. #33
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    Even with honey or whatever, you can't tenderize beef flank, especially a cut that size, in less than 30 minutes. He didn't even use a pressure cooker for crying out loud.

    Shokugeki no Souma is decidedly shounen, not seinen, so I'm not really expecting realism. I just wanted to put my two cents in. Like David, I am a gastronome, but I also love to cook.

    EDIT: And the salt sabotage was ridiculous. Why would they put in that much and not even give the pot a shake to allow it to mix in? It's like they wanted to announce the sabotage, which no one in their right mind would do.
    Last edited by shinta|hikari; Sat, 04-18-2015 at 12:59 PM.
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  14. #34
    Burning out, no really... David75's Avatar
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    I thought the same about the sabotage, but as you said this is Shounen, so everything must be easy to read, even that plot line.

    Thinking about what you wrote Kraco, it's true that BB really is home cooking. And the home version isn't restaurant ready... or rather not mid range to high end.
    Not a problem for your special of the day or familly restaurant though. And there are some presentation ideas I've seen for a similar dish that could be used in a more rustic setting (you still can't bring it easilly to the upper standard restaurants)

    I guess that presentation would be best in you average mid-range venue. But I would call it Boeuf "faįon" Bourguignon. Or Boeuf ā la Bourguignone. (Beef done like a Bourguignon)
    Also, the smaller pieces have other merits, for example the way you eat the dish is different with smaller pieces than with a single one.
    But I feel like there was just a lack of documentation on that one.

    A last blow, a BB is a very slow cooking dish. 3 hours at medium to low temperature is a minimum.
    Most people even prefer it after a second cooking the next day.
    This is after all a dish for famillies with enough income to buy beef, but not the best parts. And the dish has to be easy to heat and must be easy to reheat.
    Add potatoes, vegetables, reuse what's left of the sauce and meat, add some water, reheat, enjoy.

    All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.

  15. #35
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    And he "did" it in 30 minutes.

    LOL.
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  16. #36
    Burning out, no really... David75's Avatar
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    Talking about bourguignon all day made me crave for some. But I'm full already and we've had hot summer heat days this week, so it's totally inapropriate.

    Well prepared, with a carefully chosen wine, it is a simple yet strong and succulent dish. Seems like there are lots of recipes around in Shakespeare's language and Imperial units. So think about it for cold days
    And discard any recipe with less than 3hours cooking... time is of the essence. It allows for collagens to move out of the meat and for all tastes and wine to mingle together and get the whole better

    All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.

  17. #37
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    I love slow cooking meats, particularly braised dishes and stews simmered for ages. Stews are actually even better the next day because the flavors have mingled and unified into a smoother, richer flavor experience.

    In cooking competitions on TV, they always limit the time to one hour or less, making such delectable options impossible to make. I understand that they want to make the show suspenseful and dramatic with the time pressure, but I think it severely shackles the chefs and the possibilities. I personally would want a cooking competition show that focused on the final product instead of the race to get there.

    That limitation is not present in anime cooking shows because time is magical, like in this episode. That's actually a good thing because we get to see dishes that never take the stage in Iron Chef, Masterchef, Chopped, and the like. I've forgotten most of the manga, so I'm looking forward to the surprises Souma has in store for us. I may bring up some scientifically improbable cooking techniques like I did in this episode, but I'll be doing that more for discussion and possible interest on more realistic alternatives than actual dissatisfaction.
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  18. #38
    Procacious Polymath Ryllharu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David75 View Post
    A last blow, a BB is a very slow cooking dish. 3 hours at medium to low temperature is a minimum.
    Most people even prefer it after a second cooking the next day.
    So it is like chili? Good when you first cook it, but always better the second day after a round in the refrigerator.

    edit:
    Hell, even a few months in the freezer.

    Pro-tip: Add beer to chili instead of water.

  19. #39
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    That is a tip I will gladly take. Beer in food is always awesome.
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  20. #40
    Burning out, no really... David75's Avatar
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    I don't know much about good Chili, but except for strong spices, it feels similar to cassoulet. Another slow cooking dish for cold days.
    And cassoulet also is one of theses dishes you can enjoy several days.
    As for beer, it might work with cassoulet thanks to the beans and some of the spice, but obviously not with boeuf bourguignon because we already have wine as a base.

    All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.

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