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Thread: Posting Language

  1. #1
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    Posting Language

    I had an argument with Krayz in an anime thread which then trickled into PM. He sent me an eye-opening message that I will quote here. I haven't asked his permission, but I believe what he said was important and relevant enough in this forum to be seen by our small community:

    I'm not directly attacking you, but your way of writing things. As I said, you are wrting like "that 4chan dork" or "that guy on reddit" when you state your opinions and it's ridiculing for me to read that when I disagree.

    Your english skills are good enough to write like you actually know the person you are talking to (without being oversensitive of course) and I might say that we as the community here "know each other" long enough so that we don't have to write the way we currently do.

    This isn't even only about you right now - it's about 4/5 of Gotwoot and this is why we have this discussion in every anime thread ever whenever people are in disagreement, whether it's mfauli, ryll, kraco, you or me and it's starting to piss me off.
    I'm not outside of this loop but in the last months I noticed that I'm one of the few people that want to discuss certain shows so it doesn't end up being a "bash of the week"-thread even though the show itself isn't half bad and everyone watches it every week for some reason.

    Mfauli posts during Gate S2 was the most annoying thing I've read recently. Every single week he'd say how fucking stupid X and Y is and yet he would keep watching...and watching...and watching and it's fucking annoying when people bash on something when it's their opinion and they describe it as if you are stupid to believe otherwise

    Even if there wasn't alot to talk about, people would start nitpicking on stuff that gets ignored on what people consider a "good" show.
    It doesn't take much longer and people will complain that the MC didn't swing his sword from the left to the right, but from the right to the left and only because people don't use simple words and sentences to defuse the situation a bit

    "oh man, I'd have preferred it if he had used his sword to do a left -> right cut"
    is 1000x better than

    "Oh look at this idiot, why would he cut from right to left? The author clearly doesn't know *ANYTHING* about swordsmanship"

    When you read the second version, you'll feel stupid for disagreeing.

    It fucking sucks to read this every single week, especially when the show itself is decent (or at least not utterly horrible) and everyone knows it, because why would they keep watching if they disagree with this?


    end of message
    ----------------

    After reading that, I realized that he was right. I used to hate the exact same pedantic posts before, but after posting and reading in this forum for so long, I realize that I've become exactly the thing I despise. I could've put my nitpicks in a better manner, but instead, I used a very matter-of-fact arrogant way of phrasing when I'm fully aware what I'm writing is nothing but my opinion.

    I became obsessed with sounding right and smart that I've forgotten to consider the other person reading what I post. I believe many among us here have fallen into the same rut, with some praiseworthy exceptions (you know who you are).

    I ask that people consider what Krayz said and if possible, be nicer to each other when posting possibly volatile opinions. Why not? I, for one, will endeavor to do so starting now.

    With that, I'd like to apologize to Mfauli for my rather bully-like treatment of him recently. However, I would also like to ask him to tone down the weekly ranting. This isn't one side's fault. We keep triggering each other, resulting in a needlessly annoying exchange instead of a fun discussion between peers.

    Mfauli, I'll try to come up with a Megumin sig for you (unless you want something else) as consolation for my rude remarks and rather brutish abandonment play.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by shinta|hikari; Sun, 04-10-2016 at 03:38 PM.
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  2. #2
    Vampiric Minion Kraco's Avatar
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    It's certainly true. Reading that, I thought the general shift is largely due to the fact people here have watched anime for years and thus have already seen it all, figuratively speaking. Occasionally we get a jolly exceptional show, and I think those times the threads look totally different, even if there are still some such posts mixed in. Buth when you are watching a cliche fest, it's basically a choice between not posting at all or complaining about something. I don't know which one is a sadder choice.

    I'm also guilty for arguing for arguing's sake, albeit trying to keep it impersonal to a degree, because this forum is so dead and I miss the old times when there was discussion going on.

  3. #3
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraco View Post
    It's certainly true. Reading that, I thought the general shift is largely due to the fact people here have watched anime for years and thus have already seen it all, figuratively speaking.
    I'm also guilty for arguing for arguing's sake, albeit trying to keep it impersonal to a degree, because this forum is so dead and I miss the old times when there was discussion going on.
    This is true for me as well. However, what I forgot was how this affected other people. In fact, when SAO and Mahouka came out, I felt exactly the same as Krayz. It's never nice to hear people disparage something you like, especially if they do it in a rude/condescending/exaggerated way.

    Writing with flair is nice, but I don't think it should be done at the expense of other people's feelings. There are better ways to say things.

    Krayz's PM has pinpointed the odd tired feeling I've been having when discussing in GW. It's become such a chore because when people disagree, they go no holds barred pedantic and fill their posts with subtle (or even overt) insults against each other, which is completely unnecessary. I remember being labeled as a sucker or an asshole quite a bit recently. What I didn't realize was I was part of the problem

    I don't think we should be overly sensitive to each other, but the constant brutal ranting is a trend that seems to keep getting worse and affecting more people. I, for one, did not write as negatively about minor things before. Before I noticed it, I am, and even attacking people for not having the same "high standards" as I do. It's embarrassing for me personally, to be honest.

    Not everyone is anime-jaded, and I (now) believe it's not praise-worthy to be proud of being so.
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  4. #4
    I dont write much in the forums so I guess this isnt aimed at me but I recognized myself in what he wrote there.

    I have to say that when I write "rants" I dont actually target any other user. Basically is just me being mad with myself or the show. Mostly myself. Sometimes, due to my lack of english level, I might sound "rude/harsh" but I rarely write with that state of mind.

    IMHO its true that we have gotten old, we have eaten too much cannon shit and have our asses peeled but sometimes I find irritating that people "try hard" to love a show or praise it. I think that anime (and manga) have become so massive, there are so many shows/series, that the overall quality has dropped seriously (inflation adjusted). We have more "good" shows than 20 years ago but at the same time we have way more "bad" shows than what we had then.

    When airing a show wasnt cheap and mainstream people took care of what they were funding/allowing with much more attention and they did it on the standards of their time. With this I mean that what could be called a good show in the 1990s in the 2010s could be crap but in their time it was great (this is inflation adjusted). And many were great (ratio was way better) and not only because I was younger, knew less or was more happy overall.

    Personally when I write a rant on a show is because I care. Cause I really think that that show could have much more potential, could be great for the "today standards" with a little bit more of love for the detail poured into it. is a felling of impotence that drives to go mad mostly with myslef. I keep thinking "why do you care? Just enjoy it as empty entertaintment and let it go" but when I care I cant do it and I get mad and end writing things that could be read as what the OP described.

    If I personally ofended anyone I want to ask for forgiveness cause none here deserves it and it really wasnt what I was trying to convey. I dont mind getting a few days ban if sometimes I go overboard with my rants, rants for me are only stress/frustation relievers that help me cool off. If they are nocive for the forum I would understand disciplinary measures and will try to comply.
    The path of excess leads to the tower of wisdom

  5. #5
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone would enforce disciplinary anythings over this, nor would I want anything of the sort.

    I can completely empathize with your feelings about anime in general, which is quite similar to mine. Ranting = caring is also something I feel, and reflects a good chunk of my personal reply to Krayz.

    I honestly don't think anyone here goes out of their way to be asses. However, because everyone seems to have their faucets on full blast, a good number of posts have begun to turn offensive/abrasive/whiny. That by itself is not necessarily a bad thing, but when everything starts to become like that, I feel it becomes less and less enjoyable to hang around here and talk anime with the locals.

    I think gushing about a show is totally fine unreserved. I don't think anyone gets hurt when someone praises something they don't particularly like. They might not agree, but that's about it. The opposite seems to be more potent. When someone brutally attacks something you like, it's very hard not to take it (or at least a part of it) personally. You are your preferences, after all.
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  6. #6
    Procacious Polymath Ryllharu's Avatar
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    I'll keep this rebuttal short and sweet then:

    If I wanted a "Praise Every Anime Episode Echo Chamber" I'd be over at AnimeSuki and not here.

    The difference is some people take criticism of something they like personally. That's silly.

    And we shit on MFauli because he somehow believes that the series will change after it was written or adapted months before it even gets animated and later aired. There are people that understand the concept of suspension of disbelief and its associated reliance on conceits, and then there are people like MFauli.
    Last edited by Ryllharu; Sun, 04-10-2016 at 08:16 PM. Reason: typos

  7. #7
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryllharu View Post
    The difference is some people take criticism of something they like personally. That's silly.
    Is this really silly, though? I think it's part of people's nature to take this, at least partly, seriously. It's basically like indirectly telling them that they have bad taste, which is pretty insulting.

    What I'm suggesting is balance, which I believe is no longer present in GW. If AnimeSuki is a praise echo chamber, GW is becoming a rant echo chamber, and I'm inclined to believe the latter is worse.

    I'd also like to use your reply as reference to what I'm talking about. By labeling that people taking criticism of something they like as something personal, an idea I mentioned in my own post, as silly, you are indirectly saying that I have silly ideas. I'm used enough to your rather potent statements to shrug it off, but it's still a bit annoying. I think there's a better way to say it, but I can only do my best to plead that others give at least some effort to do that. Each person has their own way of expressing themselves, after all.
    Last edited by shinta|hikari; Sun, 04-10-2016 at 08:25 PM. Reason: adjusting myself to nice mode
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  8. #8
    Family Friendly Mascot Buffalobiian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shinta|hikari View Post
    Is this really silly, though? I think it's part of people's nature to take this, at least partly, seriously. It's basically like indirectly telling them that they have bad taste, which is pretty insulting.
    Quote Originally Posted by shinta|hikari View Post
    You have utterly terrible taste.
    Clearly the best part was the bonfire.
    And then you had to say this -_-.

    If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~

  9. #9
    Procacious Polymath Ryllharu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shinta|hikari View Post
    By labeling that people taking criticism of something they like as something personal, an idea I mentioned in my own post, as silly, you are indirectly saying that I have silly ideas. I'm used enough to your rather potent statements to shrug it off, but it's still a bit annoying. I think there's a better way to say it, but I can only do my best to plead that others give at least some effort to do that.
    And this is the thinking that leads to, "Help, I'm being oppressed! I need this to be a Safe Space!"

    If someone is unable to take criticism objectively, and takes it personally, they've lost the capacity to reason. A person is not being insulted when someone else says, "I disagree and here's why." One can't participate in an intelligent discussion when they've lost the capacity to reason.

    An idea can be silly. A person can have silly ideas. That is not an insult. To repeat: Criticism is not an insult. To stretch the idea that if one of your ideas is called silly, all of your ideas are and will be silly is a simple logical fallacy and therefore has no merit.

    If someone is so personally and emotionally invested in an anime that they take anything but fawning praise toward it as an attack on them personally, they need to grow the fuck up. When a person's ego is so threadbare and fragile that their identity is formed around a fondness for a work of fiction...I don't even know how to end that sentence, it is just...pathetic.

  10. #10
    Awesome user with default custom title KrayZ33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryllharu View Post
    And this is the thinking that leads to, "Help, I'm being oppressed! I need this to be a Safe Space!"

    If someone is unable to take criticism objectively, and takes it personally, they've lost the capacity to reason. A person is not being insulted when someone else says, "I disagree and here's why." One can't participate in an intelligent discussion when they've lost the capacity to reason.

    An idea can be silly. A person can have silly ideas. That is not an insult. To repeat: Criticism is not an insult. To stretch the idea that if one of your ideas is called silly, all of your ideas are and will be silly is a simple logical fallacy and therefore has no merit.

    If someone is so personally and emotionally invested in an anime that they take anything but fawning praise toward it as an attack on them personally, they need to grow the fuck up. When a person's ego is so threadbare and fragile that their identity is formed around a fondness for a work of fiction...I don't even know how to end that sentence, it is just...pathetic.

    All I can say to that is if you talk to someone in person the same way we are doing right now on the forums here, you'll end up being freaking lonely, it lacks respect and reason and even the will to understand the other faction. You can only "discuss" things if you are willing to hear both sides and if you aren't writing your statement as a point which is or isn/t up for discussion (because it's an opinion), then - in my opinion - it should be written as such and that, by nature, requires sentences to be structured differently.

    It takes less than 4 seconds to browse /a/ on 4chan to see how fucked up it is if noone cares about what the other person thinks or says. It always result in banter and ridiculing somone for liking "that shitty show" or disliking it but ">implying X is any better and not equally" *shit* up to the point where the general consensus becomes "Every single show is shit".

    Literally, every - single - one. 4chan is a huge community though and it would be a waste for a small one like us to become just like that.

    No one needs to put on their velvet gloves before they start to write something here, but it has been different in the past or at least less... and it would be kinda cool if it go back to that. I actually hoped it would return to that naturally, because now that it has been written out it feels odd and everyone might be on edge not to hurt my or anyone's "precious feels".
    It's pretty obvious though that everyone gets triggered here, and that includes you too - I can tell you that.

    Criticism can only be taken objectively if it's written/said objectively.
    And since opinions are, well, opinions... objectivity doesn't mix well with them since they are subjective :/.

    And this is the thinking that leads to, "Help, I'm being oppressed! I need this to be a Safe Space!"
    I'd like to address this point specifically but I don't know how to start it...
    I just don't think it will ever come to this. Has it been like this in past?
    Aren't the mods capable enough to differentiate between bullying and a healthy amount of disagreement?

    I don't know - as I said, I don't want this to be confectioneries-shop either.
    While I believe you are correct by saying that we should be all grown up and not get "hurt" by someone disliking our favorite show, it's also somewhat of a testimony to write criticism in a way that actually not ridiculing.

    Well...we'll see, I personally think a thread wasn't really *needed* and I doubt Shinta tries to enforce something like "let's be nice to each other here!" for me. It's more or less just a short "state of the board" from me.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; Mon, 04-11-2016 at 11:21 AM.

  11. #11
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    @Buff - That was clearly in jest, as I'm sure you know, and even then, check the post dates/times.

    About the thread itself, I don't think this should turn into an argument about how people should post. At most, I just wanted to express my feelings on how my own posting has changed throughout the years, and I think I should return to being less pedantic and an ass about how I write. My request to others doing the same is nothing but that. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the current hardcore trend, but I personally don't like it like this.

    I think Buff's posting style reflects my ideal the best. It's objective and lacks any ad hominem. In fact, my recent exchanges with him in the Bokumachi thread are part of what made me realize Krayz was right. I never used to argue with him in such a hostile manner. The contrast between our posting styles grew so much in the short time he hasn't been posting in GW as often. It was glaring.

    I actually agree with Ryll that criticism is not an insult, but the way it's phrased makes it sound like one. Intent can only go so far in 2 way communication. Just because one doesn't intend to hurt another does not mean the other party isn't hurt. It's not the content, but the delivery that is problematic here.

    Could've been better =! terrible.
    I disagree =! Your idea is silly.

    That slight change in tone is what I've forgotten all this while.
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  12. #12
    Linerunner MFauli's Avatar
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    First of all, I donīt want you to feel forced to make a signature for me, shinta. If you *want* to do it, then thatīd be great. Although I currently donīt have a girl in mind, Megumin is "last season" and you already do her justice :>

    On-topic:

    I will agree that discussion becomes rather depressing when itīs all about complaints. However, I also believe that modern anime deserves a lot of the criticism. You are entirely right when you say itīs not nice to hate an anime that somebody else likes. But then you also have to realize that a lot of the stuff that many of us dislike is what degrades this hobby as a whole in the publicīs eye. Donīt understand me wrong, I will always defend anime and its crazyness in front of idiots that enjoy shitting on the whole industry. But then thereīs all this cheap moe crap, thereīs all those lame tropes that keep being recycled, blech.

    I will use three examples to give somewhat of a draft of the situation at hand:

    - GATE: Yes, Iīve ranted about it a lot. Admittedly, thatīs probably because of three reasons. 1.) Iīm REALLY angry about the whole feminist/SJW shtick, because of all the censorship thatīs happening in Nintendo-games that I was looking forwars to a lot. The boob slider in the character editor got removed in the Western version of Xenoblade X, you couldnīt dress a certain girl in a bikini because sheīs underage. Dialogue in Fire Emblem Fates was changed. Clothings in Genei Ibunroku: #FE were changed. Then, not-Nintendo-related, Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 is not even released here at all, because Koei Tecmo is afraid of the backlash by the press. Star Ocean 5 gave a female character panties that cover slightly more of her butt. Costumes in Bravely Default Second are, once again, removed or changed, because theyīre too sexy for the west. And so on. Itīs really tiring, and every time you have idiots marginalizing those changes, because itīs JUST sexual stuff and they wonīt listen to any given arguments. sigh. 2.) After a certain point, when you or others are shunning my postings, calling them dumb or whatever, I go into a kinda contrarian mode. I enjoy going against the stream. Thatīs actually common behavior with me, and it doesnīt make my life easier. Oh well. 3.) GATE had *so* much potential simply judging from the basic setting. It could have been so interesting. And then it became so dumb. If I may make a comparison: After Terminator Salvation, Terminator Genesys wasnīt so bad. Nobody expected much, coming from the horrible 4th movie. Meanwhile, Kingsmen 2 just got announced. And hell yeah am I expecting a lot from that movie, because the first was so fantastic.

    - Boku dake ga inai Machi:
    Completely different discussions in that thread. Everybody liked it, and even if the ending twist wasnīt that great for everyones taste, it was still good enough to keep a good debate running. Each week weīd mention what was nice, how cute Kayo was, and so on. Why was that? Because it was a fantastic anime.

    - Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans:
    Unfortunately (or fortunately for you!), I only got into it after it was done. When I came into the thread, you instantly shunned my posting. Thatīs really where I was confused, because I honestly liked the anime and was just posting a bunch of things that I didnīt like that much. However, I went into great detail why I didnīt like that stuff. And that is something that is important, I think.

    Complaining is fine. It is fine, when itīs done constructively. That is where there was a difference between my postings about GATE and those about MSG. I believe that I was right in criticzing GATE on the points I did. What I was wrong is that I acted as if everybody had to hate it as much as I did. I want to apologize for that here. I am sorry. Everybody has a distinct taste and, I guess, even a series like GATE has its fans. It wouldnīt have been made into an anime otherwise, after all. For me, it was that enormous gap between its potential and what we really got, that drove my anger up many notches. You are right in questioning why I keep watching then. I guess it was a really unfortunate case where on one hand I had hopes that itīd turn out better (that was dumb on my part) and on the other hand the basic character design was sympathetic enough to make me feel that this anime has a certain high quality to it. If the characters had been totally flat and unoriginal, I might have dropped it. But it felt "quality" just enough.

    Iīm not sure what to do for future discussions. I will certainly try to realize earlier when a show simply isnīt for me. Had I known how GATE turned out, I would have never watched it. And I agree that we should make it an effort to mention more positive things. Not exclusively, of course, but when youīre watching an anime every week, there has to be something good about it. That much is true. Except for those absolute trainwrecks that are so bad/hilarious that you cannot look away. See School Days :P The difficulty is to realize when somebody is turned off from all the negativity. Maybe we should make it a point and make it clear now: If somebody likes an anime and makes that obvious to the rest, that rest should tone down the mocking a bit; at least when youīre nonetheless watching it, too, week after week. One-time postings like "this sucks, dropped" should be okay.

    At the moment, Iīm following 4 new shows. Kabaneri seems to be great, so postive discussion shouldnīt be a problem. Sakamoto desu ga is an over-the-top comedy, so I probably wonīt complain much here, too. Either it keeps being funny or Iīll drop it, no point in criticizing a comedy on a weekly basis. Jojo, I think, should also be save from all too much complaints, because by now its hyperbolic nature is well known. Although I will keep ranting about Jotaroīs hair. And then thereīs Mayoiga. It doesnīt have its own thread atm, so itīs safe for now. Admittedly, thereīs a lot I could complain about after having watched 2 episodes. But thereīs also some stuff to like, so itīs balanced for now.

    In summary, as long as we keep making quality postings that explain why something was bad (or good!), thatīs fine. Personally, what I hate most about my postings of the last ... year (?) is the fixation on talking about female characters and their "hotness". Thatīs just silly and doesnīt add anything to the debate at hand. Need to calm myself down in that regard ;>

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  13. #13
    Procacious Polymath Ryllharu's Avatar
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    Let's talk about something else in this thread, and what I actually thought it would be about before I clicked on it to discover it was about tone instead. It should dovetail into the primary topic as well.

    Let's talk about language. Or in other words:

    Why English is a Shitty Language, and Why American English is Even Worse

    As a monolingual speaker of English, the national language of Gotwoot, I fully respect and appreciate the nuances of English and all the baggage associated with it. Other members of our lofty forum and IRC channel possess English as a second language, with all the advantages of their other language to rely on...or be confused by.

    At the core of it, English is a language where ambiguity reigns supreme. It relies on word order, punctuation, and appropriate grammar to make sense. To that point:

    • Let's eat, Grandma
    • Let's eat Grandma

    Pretty straight forward, except they have two very different meanings. The comma has to be included to indicate a verbal pause, resulting in the clear difference between the two phrases. But of course, this is English, so we can make it much worse.

    Capital Letters are the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.

    And then you have all the fun words like read and read, bear and bear, sow and sow, wind and wind, which are actually all two completely different words.

    It is here that we get to the crux of the problem. English is a really, really, really shitty written language. It is meant to be spoken. It is reliant on being spoken. Inflection, tone, emphasis are all critical to conveying the accurate meaning of a phrase in English to another individual.

    None of that is carried through when you write something down in English. Many other languages do not have this issue. They have declension and case endings, additional words, proper syntax, etc. It is solely up to the reader to interpret the intended emphasis and tone of a written passage, or the burden on the writer is increased dramatically to prevent that level of confusion with context and uncommon vocabulary. Formatting helps, something I've used here from the beginning, but it isn't a cure-all.

    Why?

    Because American English is even worse.

    There are two major flaws with American English, and unique spelling unfortunately, isn't one of them. American English relies extensively on idioms, and hypotheticals.

    Idioms make zero sense to non-native speakers, or those who are initially unfamiliar with English. You take an completely unrelated set of words and create an abstract thought with them. British and Australian (and to a lesser degree Canadian) English don't utilize these nearly as much as American English does. I've intentionally used one already to illustrate the point.

    A "dovetail" isn't the tail of a bird, obviously. It's already messed up, because it actually describes this. A woodworking joint. And in turn that idiomatic noun is then turned into an idiomatic verb meaning to joint two separate pieces together. Even as a native speaker looking at it from a slight distance, that's fucked up. How would a non-native speaker ever understand that? Nouns? Fuck nouns, we use them as verbs whenever we feel like it.

    The second grand flaw of American English is the usage of hypotheticals, or in other words, the wholesale murdering of pronouns. Let's use another example to illustrate this:
    If someone is unable to take criticism objectively, and takes it personally, they've lost the capacity to reason. A person is not being insulted when someone else says, "I disagree and here's why." One can't participate in an intelligent discussion when they've lost the capacity to reason.
    This is what I wrote last post, but this is how I wrote it initially:
    If you are unable to take criticism objectively, and take it personally, you've lost the capacity to reason. You're not being insulted when someone else says, "I disagree and here's why." You can't participate in an intelligent discussion when you've lost the capacity to reason.
    In American English, these two paragraphs mean the exact same thing and carry the exact same tone. But the latter version can be viewed as far more confrontational and potentially as a direct attack on the reader. I had to carefully rewrite this so that shinta wouldn't take it the wrong way, despite the fact that the two paragraphs are identical. The latter way is how it is naturally spoken in American English. The former paragraph is actually incredibly awkward when spoken. It is wooden and stilted.

    American English doesn't give a shit about pronouns in their intended use. 3rd person plural "they" can mean a single person, "you" doesn't always refer to the 2nd person addressee. It's all random. When making an argument, American English will naturally fall into a Socratic method. The speaker will address a hypothetical "you" when directing the discussion at the listener, with both parties fully aware that the hypothetical version is not the listener.

    That's also pretty fucked up when you think about it. There's no possible way that can be conveyed in writing to a non-native speaker, so it can immediately be perceived as an insult or an attack, despite it never meaning to be.

    So to connect this back to the initial subject matter, at Gotwoot we use English, and a large portion of Gotwoot uses American English. A language infamous for its ambiguity, shitty reliance on spoken inflection, tone, and emphasis, and gets worse from idioms and other barely understandable quirks.

    American English (and English as a whole) is set up from the start to have an inherent ambiguity when written. The tone will be set by the reader, no matter what tone was intended by the writer. Does the reader believe the writer is hostile toward their ideas? Then they'll read it with a hostile intent when the writer was meant to express a conciliatory tone.

    So yes, a post on this forum can be deemed insulting by the reader without ever being intended as such.

    tl;dr: English is quite possibly, one of the worst written languages of all time, and using it to convey a particular tone is just asking for trouble, because the bias of the reader will invariably cause problems.
    Last edited by Ryllharu; Mon, 04-11-2016 at 05:55 PM.

  14. #14
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    @Mfauli - Give me a pm if you have a girl in mind. ...Or a guy, I won't judge.

    About your posts, I don't think you should limit the content of your posts, just the severe tone and repetitiveness. I'm certain you understand that most members of the small GW community are quite intelligent and do understand where you're coming from, even if they don't agree with you. I don't believe repeating the same things over and over again will help. Aside from that, feel free to post as much as you want anywhere. This forum is dead enough as it is, so everyone's contribution is welcome, if not necessary for survival.
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    Peace.

  15. #15
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    A friend of mine recently made a facebook post talking about how she was reading through her old livejournal blog history from back in the early 2000's (when livejournal was a thing), and basically how she wanted to apologize to everyone who knew or interacted with in that "10-15 years ago" window because of the sheer volume of her own cringeworthy, callous, careless or just cruel comments and posts.

    I think that's a good exercise. I did the same. I'll just say ... me-in-the-present remains a bit disappointed in the conduct of me-in-the-past... I was definitely not the best version of me back then.

    We are all the deeply flawed products of our upbringing, our environment, our culture, our genetics, but also of our own choices in the past. The nice part about that is, while you can't change the mortifying wreck that you probably were in the past, you are able to choose what you are in the present -- and how you-in-the-future will feel about you-now.


    This part though:
    Quote Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
    This forum is dead enough as it is, so everyone's contribution is welcome
    I know a fair number of the old active members who are gone now are gone in part because of the pervasive, aggressive negativity that's pretty much always been a thing here. One of the things I view as a personal failure as a community admin is the number of opportunities I could have personally intervened to change that that I didn't.

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