Ijiranaide, Nagatoro-san: Don't Toy with Me, Miss Nagatoro

[Ryllharu]

Ijiranaide, Nagatoro-san / Don't Toy with Me, Miss Nagatoro

High schooler Hayase Nagatoro loves to spend her free time doing one thing, and that is to bully her Senpai! After Nagatoro and her friends stumble upon the aspiring artist's drawings, they find enjoyment in mercilessly bullying the timid Senpai. Nagatoro resolves to continue her cruel game and visits him daily so that she can force Senpai into doing whatever interests her at the time, especially if it makes him uncomfortable.


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So yes, dedicated thread time. I'll probably replace the image with a better one from the OP once is isn't covered in the ED credits.

[KrayZ33]

Nobody should have to do something not to be bullied. wtf

So what? Nobody should starve either.
What's your point?

Reality is reality - a paradise doesn't exist.
People insult people and people pick on people. It's up to you to survive in this world.
You should've watched enough animes by now to realize this, as this is a common message in many of them. (or games, books, video games in general)

[Kraco]

So what? Nobody should starve either.
What's your point?

Reality is reality - a paradise doesn't exist.
People insult people and people pick on people. It's up to you to survive in this world.
You should've watched enough animes by now to realize this, as this is a common message in many of them. (or games, books, video games in general)

Yeah, I agree. While Finland probably isn't the most bullying heavy country on Earth, it still happens, these days probably more than back in the day. Nevertheless, you needed to make sure you aren't bullied by having friends and never giving an inch to the bullies.

However, obviously a story like this couldn't work if the other side really fought back. I'm not sure what kind of person would actually want to be bullied, but I suppose someone who never was might think it would be tolerable if it resulted in acquiring a girlfriend. On the other hand, I guess you could view this as an extreme extention of the tsundere trope. As it is, many modern tsunderes could be considered bullies with the violence they deliver upon the hapless dude.

I have read a bunch of chapters from the manga. I doubt I will watch this anime.

[Ryllharu]

The more that I think about it, I don't think I'd compare this to Uzaki-chan, but actually Nana to Kaoru. It's been entirely a one-sided POV at this point, and instead of softcore bondage S&M, it's more psychological sadism.

But the Nana to Kaoru definition of sadism, the real one, not the pop culture Hollywood and Harlequin romance version, or worse, upconverted Twilight fanfic version.

Nagatoro seems to know where the line is. She just crosses it before relenting and showing him tenderness. She wipes his tears every time, she asks him deep questions like why he won't get mad no matter what she's been doing to him. She shows remorse like when she pushes him into the culvert. She's not a sociopath and she does seem show him some degree of affection.

From reading Nana to Kaoru, that has all the hallmarks of after-care. Nana got "breathers" to remove her tension. Nagatoro tortures her Senpai to nudge him past his limits and hangups.

Healthy? Probably not. Definitely not at this point.

Unsurprisingly, both series are written and drawn by very prolific hentai artists.

edit:
For clarity, I've never read the series, I'm not looking for any reviews or third party information. This is all from evidence in a single episode. That's why I consider this worth my time when I normally hate the "teasing" genre. There's depth here instead of status quo circling gravitation affection that never actually connects.
I assume from all the hype this series has and the tags people have applied to it that I won't be disappointed or let down as the series progresses.

[KrayZ33]

That's why I consider this worth my time when I normally hate the "teasing" genre. There's depth here instead of status quo circling gravitation affection that never actually connects.

Same. The teasing/bullying alone would never carry the show as it would stop being funny at some point. But as was already slightly hinted at, there is obviously more to it.
But we shall see.

[David75]

I consider by my experience (hint: not universal) that girl's behavior to be hard psychological violence.
That sempai needs help, but so does that bratty girl.
I don't care she might get better with time and he improves. As per ep 1, she has to stop.

The idea that there are hints she's interrested or she cares could be also interpreted as groundwork for even deeper and more violent psychological attacks that she prepares.

I understand this is anime, I understand they need contrasts and settings to have anything happen. I understand that psychological violence might be a theme people enjoy like gore violence.
But again, from my experience, what she does is hurt that guy, like a strong brat would for his pleasure or whatever reason hit a frail boy/girl.
I consider this foul behavior and she should get consequences for that, be it an apology and being taught properly what she's really doing and why she shouldn't.
I might continue watching that show to have more input on the subject now that I'm an adult and I can better understand the whole picture.

[MFauli]

I consider by my experience (hint: not universal) that girl's behavior to be hard psychological violence.
That sempai needs help, but so does that bratty girl.
I don't care she might get better with time and he improves. As per ep 1, she has to stop.

The idea that there are hints she's interrested or she cares could be also interpreted as groundwork for even deeper and more violent psychological attacks that she prepares.

I understand this is anime, I understand they need contrasts and settings to have anything happen. I understand that psychological violence might be a theme people enjoy like gore violence.
But again, from my experience, what she does is hurt that guy, like a strong brat would for his pleasure or whatever reason hit a frail boy/girl.
I consider this foul behavior and she should get consequences for that, be it an apology and being taught properly what she's really doing and why she shouldn't.
I might continue watching that show to have more input on the subject now that I'm an adult and I can better understand the whole picture.

Yeah.

What makes it so much worse: She shows zero remorse. Like, she fucking literally catches his tears with a handkerchief while grinning like an asshole. WTF

A show about bullying works if A) it's obvious that the buillied isn't in severe distress or B) the bully realizes his/her crimes and stops doing it eventually, maybe after an escalating situation - which in Nagatoro's case would have been the very first bullying :/

"It's anime", "man up", etc. - thanks, but no thanks.

[Ryllharu]

What makes it so much worse: She shows zero remorse. Like, she fucking literally catches his tears with a handkerchief while grinning like an asshole. WTF

Bolded for emphasis.

19:20, Obviously feels bad when he falls in the culvert.
17:20, When she makes him cry again and wipes his tears again, she has a very different blush going on, and earnestly apologizes to him again
11:52, Her gifted handkerchief is returned to her and she's genuinely surprised that he gave it back with surprise and faint disappointment

Yes, each time she recovers with a shit eating grin, but that support my earlier post in the other thread that she doesn't know how to handle her feelings and defaults to this behavior. For a first episode, there really is a lot of variety to the characterization. It doesn't reset from scene to scene either. Each builds onto the next.

My hot take thus far is that she's a hyper-exaggerated version of Naoka from Koe no Katachi: A Silent Voice. She couldn't handle her emotions really well either, and invariably lashes out at the people she cares about, both friends and romantically. She's also portrayed somewhat realistically compared to Nagatoro, but they have similar actions.

[MFauli]

Bolded for emphasis.

19:20, Obviously feels bad when he falls in the culvert.
17:20, When she makes him cry again and wipes his tears again, she has a very different blush going on, and earnestly apologizes to him again
11:52, Her gifted handkerchief is returned to her and she's genuinely surprised that he gave it back with surprise and faint disappointment

Yes, each time she recovers with a shit eating grin, but that support my earlier post in the other thread that she doesn't know how to handle her feelings and defaults to this behavior. For a first episode, there really is a lot of variety to the characterization. It doesn't reset from scene to scene either. Each builds onto the next.

My hot take thus far is that she's a hyper-exaggerated version of Naoka from Koe no Katachi: A Silent Voice. She couldn't handle her emotions really well either, and invariably lashes out at the people she cares about, both friends and romantically. She's also portrayed somewhat realistically compared to Nagatoro, but they have similar actions.

I was talking about the first encounter, not what happened afterwards. And "she doesnt know how to handle her feelings", yeah, that's totally the impression when she GRINS like Adolf Hitler while making her bully victim cry tears.

Look, if you enjoy this kind of torture bs, you do you. But this feels so much more awful than, as I said, Redo of Healer, where the people being raped were EVIL cunts and deserved it. This is not the case here. Watching that guy cry from bullying was as much fun as watching a realistic rape scene. Or realistic murder scene. There's a reason why we pretty much never get these. But somehow realistic bullying is fine, and then it even gets labeled as "comedy". FML

Anyway, I don't want to interrupt your fun, I realize it's on me to just not go near this show. Other people enjoy other things than me and it's okay. I'm out of this thread :>

[Death BOO Z]

well, finally a thread i can be part of.
did a quick re-reading of the first volume for this and for uzaki-chan. can't see why someone would compare one to the other.

uzaki has a much more traditional character roles, "gloomy tall dark and handsome" and maniac pixie dream girl. even toradora had similar structure. the tsun parts here are more bullying because of the power difference, she is more sociable, super athletic and tough(as she shows in the first chapter), while he is a tween boy with nothing going for him. she has the power to make his life a complete hell (which she is nearly doing), and there's no escape.
other mangas with a similar theme still give some power to the 'bullied' party, even if it's being academically good, or having a strong enough willpower to talk back.

this one seems like straight up bullying.

[KrayZ33]

I was talking about the first encounter, not what happened afterwards. And "she doesnt know how to handle her feelings", yeah, that's totally the impression when she GRINS like Adolf Hitler while making her bully victim cry tears.

Look, if you enjoy this kind of torture bs, you do you. But this feels so much more awful than, as I said, Redo of Healer, where the people being raped were EVIL cunts and deserved it. This is not the case here. Watching that guy cry from bullying was as much fun as watching a realistic rape scene. Or realistic murder scene. There's a reason why we pretty much never get these. But somehow realistic bullying is fine, and then it even gets labeled as "comedy". FML

Anyway, I don't want to interrupt your fun, I realize it's on me to just not go near this show. Other people enjoy other things than me and it's okay. I'm out of this thread :>

And here goes that redo-healer bullshit again. It's almost as if you didn't watch the show.
Just so you realize it, he did manipulate the good girls into sex too, even drugged them - but oh well, this one here is clearly more "evil", sure... sure...
Seems like some serious bias is going on here.


This isn't much worse (yet it *is* worse, as this is a major plotpoint in this show) than 8-man or any other show with a bully/tsundere. I'd even go as far and say it's less "dramatic" so far though, because usually there is some serious group exclusion happening and a group of people hitting on the weak with physical violence included... all of which isn't happening here. It's just some girl getting on the nerves of a guy, who can't stand up for himself.
"She made him cry" is only an argument if it actually was something worse crying for... but the only reason he cried is because he is too retarded to act with people properly, not because she was doing some serious "mind fuckery" or whatever.
Senpai even goes as far and says that it isn't so bad himself. Once more, your duality amazes me, considering how quick you are to say "fuck this MC" whenever he can't stand up for himself.

It's only one episode in too and he broke after she criticised his behavior exactly once.
He immediatly buckled before the first conversion even started, even though he is one year older too.
He doesn't have any social contacts due to how he acts around people. He is a loser because he is acting like a loser, actively avoiding people, no matter if they are good willed or not.
The sad truth is that, even if this "bullying" (it's not even bullying yet, but it's clearly going in that direction) didn't happen. He'd still be all alone and no one would talk to him. Nagatoro is constantly giving him ways out too, she doesn't even threaten Senpai with anything.
She's being a nuisance for sure but that's just about how threatening the whole situation is so far.

[neflight86]

Fair first ep; actually more entertaining than I remember the manga being.

I suppose a lens you could look at it through is the question: "Is she bullying him because he's weak, or challenging him to be better?" Its a reach, but it (the benefit of the doubt) makes their interactions more cute, and I'm not really looking to this anime to validate my own moral compass, so I will choose to enjoy the bullying.

That's why I consider this worth my time when I normally hate the "teasing" genre.

Wait; this is a genre? I can only think of Uzaki, Takagi, and... this. Do you include manga, or are there more anime examples I should be aware of?

[Ryllharu]

Wait; this is a genre? I can only think of Uzaki, Takagi, and... this. Do you include manga, or are there more anime examples I should be aware of?

As a focus, yes, it is those three in anime. There's more in manga, and depending on how you look at it, many precursors to those but more as a major component to the series, but certainly not the central focus.

It's like a hentai staple bleeding into mainstream anime, kinda. But there's plenty of shoujo and smut series that have always had these elements. The shift from shoujo/josei tropes is a female bullying a male with romantic subcontext.

Umaru-chan is probably the closest modern anime equivalent, and in many ways the lead-in success that resulted in those three geting their adaptations.

[DarthEnderX]

I see gifs of this a lot, and I always just assumed it was hentai...

I'll probably replace the image with a better one from the OP once is isn't covered in the ED credits.

Try this one?

[KrayZ33]

That nipple game was so silly and Nagatoro's reaction and face was priceless.

"I messed up, I messed up!!!"

When she did it to him, it was almost as if she was high on endorphins

[Ryllharu]

This episode was really interesting and quite telling about how Nagatoro actually is.

The nipple game, she actually lost her nerve!

But in the family restaurant, it's not just the cold way she talked. Her near-permanent blush completely disappeared when she was talking to those two guys. She really was completely disinterested. When she catches up with her senpai on the street, the blush is back, and above its baseline intensity! Not just the hint of red around the outside of her eyes, but the lines and all the way to her nose.

She certainly does know how to deal with people, even cruelly emasculating and shaming the men her friends try to hook her up with. Senpai is different, and she certainly seemed to be hiding a whole lot of flirting chances with teasing him.

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, it's pretty clear she actually has a crush on him and just doesn't know how to express her feelings in a healthy or appropriate manner.

[neflight86]

Yeah. Their relationship will never advance if their only interaction is offence/defense. Only so much intimacy can be inferred. I'll forgive it because kids.

So, she likes him, but (aside from story) why do you think that is? Their first interaction seems to have been when she saw his spilled manga, and she immediately began casting shade. Unless his looks were her type, I wonder what initial attraction was there to establish bullying and that 'he doesn't get mad', the only bone we have as to why the infatuation?

[DarthEnderX]

So, she likes him, but (aside from story) why do you think that is? Their first interaction seems to have been when she saw his spilled manga, and she immediately began casting shade.

I'm guessing she saw something in his art she connected with.

Kinda like how she knew she wasn't into the guy this episode after listening to his music.

[KrayZ33]

So obviously something is mentally wrong with Nagatoro and she gets triggered whenever she sees Senpai starting to cry.
But this show is really funny so far, I'm enjoying it alot.