The Non-Effort of Isekai Anime - Why don't the try more and what are the Good Ones?

[MFauli]

Decided to make a new thread for this since isekaei anime are a big topic in themselves, so not for the recommendations thread. And there's more than recommendation talk here anyway.

I just got done Isekai Yakkyoku and it's one of the worse Isekai anime I watched. Why is it bad? Because: The story just ends, making it a shameless advert for the manga. The hero is once again given all the best powers and doesn't have to put in much work of his own. Everyone likes the hero or quickly grows to like him. And worst of all, the hero never tries to find a way back to his nor spends much time thinking about his old life.

The latter is an especially crass flaw that most modern isekai anime carry: The heroes NEVER try to return to their own world! You basically have to assume that all isekai heroes hated their old world, which imo is both a way too pessimistic outlook at our actual real life and also simply acts as an easy out for not having to explain why the heroes never want to return. When I look back at older quasi-isekai anime, like Vision of Escaflowne or the first season of Digimon, the CORE theme of the story always was: WE MUST RETURN TO OUR WORLD. And that made a lot of sense, because as "cool" as fantasy world may look to an outsider, it's actually pretty scary when you're put inmidst of it.

Of course, this scariness is offset entirely when the heroes of modern isekai anime have god-like abilities and befriend everyone, making the fantasy world nothing but weeb paradise for them.

Now you could say "well, there you have it, they don't want to return because they found their paradise". Yeah, but not only does that still make those heroes super selfish, because meanwhile your parents and family and friends are crying their hearts out over your death (in a realistic depiction, not in the lazy "nah, everyone hated me anyway" way). It also doesn't excuse why hardly any isekai heroes USE their past life knowledge for their new life! And I'm explicitely not talking about a doctor who uses his SPECIAL knowledge for making medicine - that is another horrible trope of isekai anime, where the heroe has ONE gimmick and the whole story is built around it, ugh. No, I mean a normal guy from our world, landning in medieval times and then thinking about all the things that were part of his old life. And more or less applying that knowledge. Not in a gimmick way like Dr Stone, but in a down-to-earth, grounded way, like giving ideas for stuff like planes, motors, or showing new cooking recipes, or basic stuff like "if you wash your hands before eating and bathe in the river twice a week instead of once a year, you'll stay healthier". Also, heroes never talking about their past life with anyone, always keeping it a secret. Whatever reason is used, I jused don't accept it. World full of magic, and you cannot tell you're from another world? Come on. In summary, just DO something more with your past life memories, be it finding a way back or simply surviving. Even if it just makes for a good story for newly found friends.

And then separate from the above, there's the issue that isekai anime always go for the same basic setup and it is soooo boring at this point. 99% of all isekai anime use the "hero dies irl, ends up in medieval world, and there's ONE gimmick". Ugh. There's lots of people complaining about isekai anime at this point, but I'm not one of them, astoundingly. Why? Because IN THEORY isekai anime have soooooo much potential for great stories. It's only that somehow we found ourselves in a situation where isekai equals "hero dies, lands in medieval world, has one gimmick" and creators stopped thinking at that point.

Yet when I think about isekai anime, I think of stories like (fanfiction incoming):
- a story like GATE, but done well (reverse isekai, magic and armor not being useless against modern weapons, one guy not getting all hot girls, generally a more realistic, serious story)
- group of adults is isekai'd in medieval world, have different goals, serious depiction
- timetravel isekai stories, why can't we have people being isekai'd to dinosaur times? Or any of the myriad of historical events? Countless potential here. An ancient Rome-isekai story where a group of students and their professor land in ancient Rome and need to find a way home, but first a way to survive. One or two of the students die in the first couple episodes to set the tone.

And then the most important idea of them all: If your story's hero doesn't want to return to his world, doesn't make us of his past world knowledge, and just goes on to enjoy the new life in a medieval world with magic: DONT MAKE IT AN ISEKAI! Making a proper fantasy-anime is okay, too! To this day, Record of Lodoss War is the best fantasy-anime, but not because it's unsurpassable. Because nobody even tries anymore.

Anyway, that's it for the main body of this OP. I invite all of you to tell us your own opinion about isekai anime, answer to things I said, and ofc giving recommendations: What are Isekai anime you watched that go against the generic stereotype and offer a truly good story that's worth watching? Feel free to write your heart out here. Thanks!

[Ryllharu]

Well, first off, the overwhelming majority of anime is promo materials for the original property, manga or Light Novel or game. That should never surprise you.

Modern Isekai is at its core, Beginner's Fiction. Even the famous ones. Even the "good ones." It's not quite a lazy as LitRPG, but since isekai series are often also LitRPGs, you can guess how that turns out.

The biggest name Isekai series most likely have their start on Shōsetsuka ni Narō specifically. It is very much on par with fanfiction sites, except it is original material. You should absolutely recognize very famous series, generic trash series, and absurdly overrated series from that list.

So why is Modern Isekai lazy? It allows the authors take all the literary shortcuts!

• Fish Out of Water protagonist means that the author gets an excuse to go into exposition mode to bring the POV character up to speed. No need to try and naturally introduce setting elements to the audience.
• Protagonist has no preconceived attachments to the world so the author can start the story literally anywhere. No messy torn loyalties.
• The author can just make a passive character outright. Getting dragged along in the story by other characters instead of initiating any actions or plot points themselves.
• Create a decent villain? Either insert character as the villain (as the Villainess sub-genre does), or drop the protagonist in the midst of one-dimensional evil whatevers. Just make the main villain a demon lord or god.
• Character development? Nah. LitRPG elements, numerically show the protagonist getting stronger, and literally avoid having to be creative or even come up with any rational reasons for the protagonist to learn new abilities.
• Consistency of magic systems? Nah! Just give them a "cheat" ability. Put it in your title in advance to excuse yourself from bad fantasy writing practices.
• Kill them off via Truck-kun and you can skip any thought or conflict with wanting to go home. They have nowhere to go. And on top of that, no messy torn loyalties with any preexisting political factions.
• Easy power fantasies with cheat abilities.
• Avoid any actual struggle or character vulnerabilities with cheat abilities.
• Provide a solution of deus ex machina caliber to any threat with cheat abilities.
• Thoughtfully written romance? Make them a slave or magically bind them to the protagonist in summoning rituals gone wrong, or instantly save them right at the beginning to fabricate an emotional connection like Suspension Bridge Effect instead of having anything remotely natural develop, which would take some actual writing skill.
• And many, many more!

Going for an isekai setup pretty much guarantees that the author can cover up very common beginner novelist mistakes with some of the devices listed above. Or they can even openly use things that would normally get any other manuscript, synopsis, or even conceptual outlines tossed from consideration in a normal novel.

It's fundamentally lazy and easy writing compared to the fantasy, historical, or scifi genres.

The better isekai address some of these shortcuts and integrate them accordingly and are better for it. Some avoid it, but they rarely hit all of them. Just about everyone goes for the Easy Setting Exposition Shortcut.

I've generally shifted to prefer Reincarnation stories over the Transmigrator stories because they deny the author at least some of the above list, but they still utilize many of the same ones in the end.

That list is why Isekai is so plentiful. It creates excuses for bad writing to come off as natural or good writing in fantasy settings. The power-fantasy series are always popular because they just always have been. Asian fiction has always focused on Cultivation-type (xianxia) stories. Baked right into their cultural mythology.

But the good news is that we're starting to get past the generic bottom-of-the-barrel isekai trash and into the self-parody stuff.
- "Reincarnated as a sword" is next season (fall 2022)
- "Reincarnated as a vending machine" anime adaptation just go announced.

But there's more traditional fantasy on the way too that just got announced. Keep an eye out for those.

[MFauli]

Well, first off, the overwhelming majority of anime is promo materials for the original property, manga or Light Novel or game. That should never surprise you.

Modern Isekai is at its core, Beginner's Fiction. Even the famous ones. Even the "good ones." It's not quite a lazy as LitRPG, but since isekai series are often also LitRPGs, you can guess how that turns out.

The biggest name Isekai series most likely have their start on Shōsetsuka ni Narō specifically. It is very much on par with fanfiction sites, except it is original material. You should absolutely recognize very famous series, generic trash series, and absurdly overrated series from that list.

So why is Modern Isekai lazy? It allows the authors take all the literary shortcuts!

• Fish Out of Water protagonist means that the author gets an excuse to go into exposition mode to bring the POV character up to speed. No need to try and naturally introduce setting elements to the audience.
• Protagonist has no preconceived attachments to the world so the author can start the story literally anywhere. No messy torn loyalties.
• The author can just make a passive character outright. Getting dragged along in the story by other characters instead of initiating any actions or plot points themselves.
• Create a decent villain? Either insert character as the villain (as the Villainess sub-genre does), or drop the protagonist in the midst of one-dimensional evil whatevers. Just make the main villain a demon lord or god.
• Character development? Nah. LitRPG elements, numerically show the protagonist getting stronger, and literally avoid having to be creative or even come up with any rational reasons for the protagonist to learn new abilities.
• Consistency of magic systems? Nah! Just give them a "cheat" ability. Put it in your title in advance to excuse yourself from bad fantasy writing practices.
• Kill them off via Truck-kun and you can skip any thought or conflict with wanting to go home. They have nowhere to go. And on top of that, no messy torn loyalties with any preexisting political factions.
• Easy power fantasies with cheat abilities.
• Avoid any actual struggle or character vulnerabilities with cheat abilities.
• Provide a solution of deus ex machina caliber to any threat with cheat abilities.
• Thoughtfully written romance? Make them a slave or magically bind them to the protagonist in summoning rituals gone wrong, or instantly save them right at the beginning to fabricate an emotional connection like Suspension Bridge Effect instead of having anything remotely natural develop, which would take some actual writing skill.
• And many, many more!

Going for an isekai setup pretty much guarantees that the author can cover up very common beginner novelist mistakes with some of the devices listed above. Or they can even openly use things that would normally get any other manuscript, synopsis, or even conceptual outlines tossed from consideration in a normal novel.

It's fundamentally lazy and easy writing compared to the fantasy, historical, or scifi genres.

The better isekai address some of these shortcuts and integrate them accordingly and are better for it. Some avoid it, but they rarely hit all of them. Just about everyone goes for the Easy Setting Exposition Shortcut.

I've generally shifted to prefer Reincarnation stories over the Transmigrator stories because they deny the author at least some of the above list, but they still utilize many of the same ones in the end.

That list is why Isekai is so plentiful. It creates excuses for bad writing to come off as natural or good writing in fantasy settings. The power-fantasy series are always popular because they just always have been. Asian fiction has always focused on Cultivation-type (xianxia) stories. Baked right into their cultural mythology.

But the good news is that we're starting to get past the generic bottom-of-the-barrel isekai trash and into the self-parody stuff.
- "Reincarnated as a sword" is next season (fall 2022)
- "Reincarnated as a vending machine" anime adaptation just go announced.

But there's more traditional fantasy on the way too that just got announced. Keep an eye out for those.

You're listing why isekai is lazy, I was talking about that it doesn't have to. That's what's frustrating. Since you seem to have a better overview, are there really no GREAT fantasy stories out there? Whether they're already adapted or not, doesn't matter.

And halleluja (/s), comedy parodies of isekai anime, that's what we needed :/

PS: If that Shosetsuka ni narou existed for English texts, I'd totally do it lol

[Ryllharu]

You're listing why isekai is lazy, I was talking about that it doesn't have to. That's what's frustrating.

I think you kind of missed my point. They're always going to be lazy. At least a rate of 95%.

Isekai lets sub-par writers cover their narrative, character development, character writing in general, structural, and worldbuilding failings.

I think there are quite a few great fantasy series out there, but "universally" great (read: non-existent) and great-to-me (plentiful) are not the same thing which is why I'm not going to answer.
Some people think Solo Leveling (a prominent LitRPG) is the best thing ever (same people who would list Tower of God as 'teh best' before SL started), while I might say Flying Witch or Hyper Police are phenomenal fantasy manga. They're not even the same genre. There's light fantasy of Reincarnation sub-genre series, there's heavy fantasy of Berserk, or there's even scifi/fantasy of the Chinese/Korean transmigrator stuff.

[MFauli]

I think you kind of missed my point. They're always going to be lazy. At least a rate of 95%.

Isekai lets sub-par writers cover their narrative, character development, character writing in general, structural, and worldbuilding failings.

I think there are quite a few great fantasy series out there, but "universally" great (read: non-existent) and great-to-me (plentiful) are not the same thing which is why I'm not going to answer.
Some people think Solo Leveling (a prominent LitRPG) is the best thing ever (same people who would list Tower of God as 'teh best' before SL started), while I might say Flying Witch or Hyper Police are phenomenal fantasy manga. They're not even the same genre. There's light fantasy of Reincarnation sub-genre series, there's heavy fantasy of Berserk, or there's even scifi/fantasy of the Chinese/Korean transmigrator stuff.

Then let's be more specific: Do have any recommendations for "Record of Lodoss War"-TheBest?

And again, while Isekai, as we can all see, invites laziness, I don't think it needs to be lazy. It's a great concept for all sorts of stories, but somehow we only see like 2% of its potential applied by authors.

[neflight86]

I think you'll have much greater success and satisfaction adjusting your own tastes and looking into other genre(s). For reasons listed above, isekai, as a genre, is a breeding ground for low effort, barely functional storytelling and gets away with this as it has the power to resonate with a substantial demographic (youth and young adult) by virtue of their own lack of desire for sophistication in their entertainment. That sounds really pretentious, and maybe it is, but the fact is, there is a massive audience of young people who were brought up on video games and fantasy tropes, and the novelty of stories adopting them as short-hand for their world building is appealing (or at least not off-putting). Add in that the actual commercial viability of anime is typically dependent on and decided once blu-ray sales begin after broadcast, and are largely historically random, and the anime production committees have little choice but to green light any trash that might be liked by that audience. Hence truck-kun working overtime.

Hopefully that addresses your 'Why don't they try more(harder?)' question. As for the 'good isekai' recommendations... I expect you've already watched most of the cream of that crop, because anything approaching quality is typically talked about here and elsewhere. You might as well dive into regular fantasy at this point, because the line between that and isekai is so blurry as to warrant a visit to the optometrist (they're both grouped together in my brain). Or simply accept that you're probably not going to find high concept fantasy epics with any regularity in the anisphere. As they say, "Don't pan for gold in a toilet; you'll get the wrong nuggets more often than not".

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, I ended up watching a lot of these even though most of them are trash, but this season really broke me. Two of the isekai this season were SOOOOO generic I gave up after 2 episodes.

The better ones are the one where there's a "hook" that separates them out. But usually, those hooks don't justify more than a single season. And that's fine. Show me how your twist alters the standard formula, then get out.


Anyway, the "good" ones that I still really look forward to are:

Mushoku Tensei
Re: Zero
KonoSuba
Reincarnated as a Slime

[MFauli]

I think you'll have much greater success and satisfaction adjusting your own tastes and looking into other genre(s). For reasons listed above, isekai, as a genre, is a breeding ground for low effort, barely functional storytelling and gets away with this as it has the power to resonate with a substantial demographic (youth and young adult) by virtue of their own lack of desire for sophistication in their entertainment. That sounds really pretentious, and maybe it is, but the fact is, there is a massive audience of young people who were brought up on video games and fantasy tropes, and the novelty of stories adopting them as short-hand for their world building is appealing (or at least not off-putting). Add in that the actual commercial viability of anime is typically dependent on and decided once blu-ray sales begin after broadcast, and are largely historically random, and the anime production committees have little choice but to green light any trash that might be liked by that audience. Hence truck-kun working overtime.

Hopefully that addresses your 'Why don't they try more(harder?)' question. As for the 'good isekai' recommendations... I expect you've already watched most of the cream of that crop, because anything approaching quality is typically talked about here and elsewhere. You might as well dive into regular fantasy at this point, because the line between that and isekai is so blurry as to warrant a visit to the optometrist (they're both grouped together in my brain). Or simply accept that you're probably not going to find high concept fantasy epics with any regularity in the anisphere. As they say, "Don't pan for gold in a toilet; you'll get the wrong nuggets more often than not".

Feel free to recommend truly great fantasy anime then. Because I don't see much of those either. And pls no feudal Japan or anything with "Nobunaga", ugh.

[DarthEnderX]

Feel free to recommend truly great fantasy anime then.

Depends what you consider fantasy.

One Piece and HxH are fantasy anime. Just not in the traditional D&D template.

[MFauli]

Depends what you consider fantasy.

One Piece and HxH are fantasy anime. Just not in the traditional D&D template.

Most importantly you know that I know those, so why recommend? Unless you want to make a complete list of the greatest fantasy-anime which you are also free to do.

If it's for me specifically: I'm asking for SERIOUS fantasy-stories (light-hearted moments are okay, ofc) that tell a journey, with good character development, and without bs like a harem flocking to the MC or MC getting superpowers without effort. Really, look at Record of Lodoss War and Vision of Escaflowne and tell me if there's something similar.

[Death BOO Z]

Great to see such a thread

I think the problem with most isekais isn't the isekai part as much as it's the gamified world part (litrpg I guess). a lot of bad premesis start because of the ridicolous conciet that stats/powers/abilities/levels are absoloute and tranparent, rather than the isekai part. every time there's a story about "my party dumped me because my ability is bad but actually strongest" or "summoned as hero, king said i was uselss, but now amazing", then the thing that moves me out of the story is how unhuman the setting is. it's like those scenes when there are some ugly bandit who attack a female character becuase she doesn't look strong, but then she kicks their asses because she has amazing magic (or worse, she has an S-level strength rating) - it shows how de-attached the story is from itself, don't they know the rules of the world they exist in? the author can spend five chapters on how the MC can combine different abilities togeher when he levels up, but in the end, it's all "go to adventure guild, get card with F rank, advance to A rank in a day". it's a mindless grind of the same content, even the order of the harem girls is a routine (waifu, loli, hero-girl, distant tall girl, other lolis). nothing that stands out, even the amazing cheat ability is standartized into "great at everything" after a few levels.

there are tons of classic displacement stories, escaflowne, rayearth, fushigi yuugi, inuyasha, mar, even zero-no-tsukaime, and as you said, they lean into the outsider angle, even when the characters have special powers. in contrast, there are many "not-isekais" stories that I dump together with isekais, because they would be the same if you added a zero-th chapter about them being hit by a truck, which is where the "my job is classified as weakest, actually super" stories come into, but also stuff like "is it wrong to pick up girls in a dungeon", which plays out as an isekai.

If anything, I'm more interested in girl-isekai stories, even if entirely generic, the template has a bit more connective tissue to work around, and the isekai part has more weight, either wanting to be villainnes, wanting to escape the role, or just having some emotions toward the new world they inhabit. or a the very least, there is a large enough cast of characters with strong personallities which aren't overwriten by the uber-powers of the reborn princess girl. also, if you squint hard enough you can find a theme in those stories about what society excepts of woman in japan and how they engate with those ideals. whereas boy-isekais are usually "I wish i was born a giga-chad, but also somehow still retained all my intrests in weeb stuff, but it would work out really good for me, and without ever thinking about why I need to escape my reality". a common point with good stories is that the protagainst has something important to them, some goal or target or desire. it doesn't have to be "get home","be strongest" works fine, "meet cute animals" is also a goal, but many stories have "slow-life", which is a weird thing to hang a fantasy story around, because it usually means "I want to re-create the modern life of a japanese teenager without any friends or families that only interacts with the world through consumption of pop-media". but it can work, if the mc actually has the goal, and the story builds on the conflict between the genre and the goal.

I think the saintess/villainess stories are the most interesting sub-genre of the isekai landscape, theres the most meat to work around with, and the strucutered form of the plot actaully helps. a lot of the important roles are pre-baked into it (love intrests, family connections, the rival character, the "help class characters"), and so are the key plot events (enternace ceremony, first meeting the rival, the ball at the end, meeting the king...), so it actually allows a beginner writer to write better, rather than spreading the focus around.


good isekais (manga)
- I'm standing a top a million lives - scenario that's kind of similar to GANTZ, each mission is in the fantasy world with additional players and a wider world. the selling point is that each 'arc' in the fantasy world is explicitly about some sociological issue, like drug abuse, civil war, in-equal economy... so the struggle isn't to bring out the bigger damage numbers, but to understand the situation.
- far away paladin - the high point is that the OP MC is actually going through some interesting stuff in relation to the gods of the world.
- ideal spoonger wife - more of a displacement story than isekai, but still works.
- sengoku komachi kurotan - girl is transported to feaudal japan, becomes an advisor to oda. artwork is bad, but story is good.
- tanya the evil - I think it's really famous and big, so I don't need to explain.
- reborn as a mob character - has some similiarites to tanya in terms of humor, every lie the mc tells when he makes up a bullshit story turns out to be true.

embarrsing to admit I ocassionally read isekais:
- parallel world - guy is the only man in the world and fucks his way into becoming the saviour. I never read the first 100 chapters becuase it felt so dirty, but reading it on a week-to-week basis is ok. I just need to accept that the story is porn-with-plot
- Himekashi (something something) - entire class is transported, MC has sex based powers. never read the first couple of chapters as well, but chapter to chapter is ok.

[Ryllharu]

If it's for me specifically: I'm asking for SERIOUS fantasy-stories (light-hearted moments are okay, ofc) that tell a journey, with good character development, and without bs like a harem flocking to the MC or MC getting superpowers without effort. Really, look at Record of Lodoss War and Vision of Escaflowne and tell me if there's something similar.

Honestly at this point, you're better off consuming the modern versions of what Lodoss really was: A TTRPG Replay. Watching people play D&D, or podcasts. Plenty of well-produced ones to choose from. (edit: They may also be referred to as the "Actual play" genre)

Japan considers Black Summoner as "serious high fantasy."

I do recommend branching out like DBZ suggests, because they don't publish serious high fantasy much anymore. At least not with male leads. Female leads get the serious stories. Male leads get the cheat power fantasies and unearned harems.

Historical Smut, Reincarnated (typically as the villainess, but not always), Time Rewind with a historical setting. Generally, they're all going to be Korean. Except the historical smut, those will be Japanese.

[MFauli]

rayearth, fushigi yuugi, mar, even zero-no-tsukaime

Do these hold up today? Haven't seen them, but when you mention them next to Lodoss and Escaflowne, my interest rises :>

good isekais (manga)
- I'm standing a top a million lives - scenario that's kind of similar to GANTZ, each mission is in the fantasy world with additional players and a wider world. the selling point is that each 'arc' in the fantasy world is explicitly about some sociological issue, like drug abuse, civil war, in-equal economy... so the struggle isn't to bring out the bigger damage numbers, but to understand the situation.
- far away paladin - the high point is that the OP MC is actually going through some interesting stuff in relation to the gods of the world.
- ideal spoonger wife - more of a displacement story than isekai, but still works.
- sengoku komachi kurotan - girl is transported to feaudal japan, becomes an advisor to oda. artwork is bad, but story is good.
- tanya the evil - I think it's really famous and big, so I don't need to explain.
- reborn as a mob character - has some similiarites to tanya in terms of humor, every lie the mc tells when he makes up a bullshit story turns out to be true.

embarrsing to admit I ocassionally read isekais:
- parallel world - guy is the only man in the world and fucks his way into becoming the saviour. I never read the first 100 chapters becuase it felt so dirty, but reading it on a week-to-week basis is ok. I just need to accept that the story is porn-with-plot
- Himekashi (something something) - entire class is transported, MC has sex based powers. never read the first couple of chapters as well, but chapter to chapter is ok.

I'm in chapter 4 of "Paralell Paradise" now and ... lol (will probably keep reading xD). However, this manga also highlights one big weakness of isekai: The majority of them feature child or teenager heroes. It's especially egregious in a st ory like Parallel Paradise where I'd much rather see an adult guy fuck all those girls, but even in non-ecchi isekai anime, it's mostly teenage heroes. Although I guess this is an anime-wide problem and can't be blamed on the isekai genre per se.

Are there any good isekai or regular fantasy anime featuring adult heroes? (adult = looks adult; not heroes who look like they could be teenagers as well)

[Ryllharu]

Do these hold up today? Haven't seen them, but when you mention them next to Lodoss and Escaflowne, my interest rises :>

I've only been bringing them up to you for Years.

[Death BOO Z]

Do these hold up today? Haven't seen them, but when you mention them next to Lodoss and Escaflowne, my interest rises :>

No idea if they do, haven't read any of them in ages. But they all have at least one good point to carry them. so even if you don't like the execution, there's something worthwhile in engaging with them. (that being said, not that much of record-of-loddos-wars fan).

I'm in chapter 4 of "Paralell Paradise" now and ... lol (will probably keep reading xD). However, this manga also highlights one big weakness of isekai: The majority of them feature child or teenager heroes. It's especially egregious in a st ory like Parallel Paradise where I'd much rather see an adult guy fuck all those girls, but even in non-ecchi isekai anime, it's mostly teenage heroes. Although I guess this is an anime-wide problem and can't be blamed on the isekai genre per se.

Are there any good isekai or regular fantasy anime featuring adult heroes? (adult = looks adult; not heroes who look like they could be teenagers as well)

and that's what you decided to start with? why not far-away-paladin?
as for the age of the main characters, as you said, it'a an anime-wide issue.

sometimes it works, because the hereo is a supposed to have a childish outlook, even with the great power. it usually goes well when the theme is "I missed out on my previous life because i was sick or a shut-in, this time i'll do it right!", so even if the hero was an adult in real life, the parts that he missed out of were the adultsence, and he never experienced any adult conflicts, so it's not so weird. it is weird when a sixty something person does it, and is now a 12 years old and interacts with other 12 y.o. creepy. this is enough of a segway to talk about another sub-genre, the pointless reincarnation. a mc who was an accomplished human and lived an entire life, and reason for re-birth is "I want to do it better". like mastering magic, or getting stronger than whatever level of "strongest" he was. the hook for sympathzing with the protaganist is non-existent.
tanya does this well, it's a 30y.o turning into a 11y.o, but it works. far-away-paladin also works well, he was an adult, but being a teenager works for the story becuase of how inexpereincesd and outsider to the world he's supposed to be.
I think there are some cases when there is adult hero where it's even worse than a teenager hero, a 30y.o who hasn't done anything ever, and wants nothing from his life, and has nothing he values. he then goes on an adventure, and we gradually (i.e. every other episode) learn that he actually has tons of friends (all girls 15 years younger than him) and has amazing achivements (was a teacher to those girls), but despite that still has no desire towards anything, and behaves as if nothing of importance happened anytime in his life.

teenage heros are almost a necessity, even berserk starts with teenage guts.

[MFauli]

Ok, which one's better, Fushigi Yuugi or Magic Knight Rayearth? I'll start the one you tell me right this night. Hurry pls

[Ryllharu]

Fushigi Yuugi.

Rayearth is a lot of other people's favorite from 90s anime, so you can't really go wrong.

[KrayZ33]

Feel free to recommend truly great fantasy anime then. Because I don't see much of those either. And pls no feudal Japan or anything with "Nobunaga", ugh.

I'm pretty sure you've seen most of them, they might not be masterpieces but far above the trash (like Smartphone Isekai) you are refering to in your first post.

Let me list some for you and let me start with one you might not have watched yet.

Castlevania - the english dub is very good. Mutliple seasons full of goodness.

And now let me list some you probably know already but that were also pretty/very good. Fantasy/Historic/Semi-real/Isekai settings in random order and random genre mix:

Vinland Saga
Goblin Slayer
Spice and Wolf
Berserk
Fullmetal Alchemist
The Heroic Legend of Arslan
Attack on Titan
Maoyuu Mao Yuusha
Magi: The Labyrinth of Magic
Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash
Record of Gancrest War (still has the best fire-mage character there ever was in anime imho, at least as long as I consider Sypha from Castlevania as an Elementarist)
Maria the Virgin Witch
Rage of Bahamut

I'm leaving out the really old ones because honestly, I can't watch them anymore, anime just doesn't age well... or at least most of the artstyles didn't.
Slayers used to be funny_af though (the english dub more so than the japanese one)

[DarthEnderX]

Most importantly you know that I know those, so why recommend?

Kinda all I got...

Not actually a lot of "great" fantasy anime. You already said Lodoss War. And even that's more nostalgic than great.

If it's for me specifically: I'm asking for SERIOUS fantasy-stories (light-hearted moments are okay, ofc) that tell a journey, with good character development, and without bs like a harem flocking to the MC or MC getting superpowers without effort. Really, look at Record of Lodoss War and Vision of Escaflowne and tell me if there's something similar.

Really, look at Record of Lodoss War and Vision of Escaflowne and tell me if there's something similar.

I'm not sure there is...

If there was, you'd probably already know about it. Like Berserk.

Both Dragon Quests are that. But I wouldn't call them great. But Dragon Quest: Legend of the Hero Abel is as nostalgic as Lodoss is for me.

[Kraco]

What a thread... Ryll already said as much, but I'll underline it: isekai is trash. That's why people say: isekai trash. All of it. No serious author will touch is anymore, I imagine. It's the epitome of escapism literature because the very core of the setting is an ordinary person from our world getting transported in some way to a fantasy world. How much more directly could an author point at a reader and say: "Imagine this happening to you." The exceedingly commonplace game mechanics element makes it even worse because lots of people are familiar with games and love to play them.

Another example of why it's pure escapism literature are the slow life isekai series, which are a dime a dozen. The point is that pretty much nothing happens in the series or if some problems do occur, the MC sorts them out promptly and the end result is positive. For example if an enemy appears, he/she turns into an ally at the end of the short arc. These series are written for the millions of Japanese students and black company slaves dying of stress.

Nonetheless, I do love isekai as a genre. I guess that shows how efficient the format is. Sure, I'm bored to death by the instantly OP MCs, especially those with cheats outside of the common sense of the new world. But I still read a bunch of such series as well. If an isekai series seems to be slave girl heavy right from the description or the first chapters, I'll skip it. I can't stand that. There are so many isekai manga (and their original novel) series that there's something for everyone, as long as you understand it's never going to be above the level of pulp literature.