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  1. #61
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    Are people actually defending assassinations being a moral thing? I think they are just saying that Mfauli is overacting over a very common trope.
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  2. #62
    Linerunner MFauli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neflight86 View Post
    A more inflammatory take than usual, Mfauli.
    HOW?!

    Glad you found a dub that fits your preference better. It seems the Japanese VA industry has vaulted ahead of its western contemporaries (or maybe has already been there), as it really pulls in some star power over there. English dubs are getting better, but slowly, use many of the same actors, and still have the regular stinker here and there.
    Why did you word that entire paragraph so passive-aggressively? You make it sound like I generally prefer German dub over Japanese dub, which isn't true. I also never said the German dub is better than the Japanese dub, just that I found the dub to be good per se.

    The violence isn't realistic. Nobody found the child being afraid of the villain funny (it was framed as fear), and as has been mentioned, she has been desensitized somewhat by her abusive upbringing in the lab and elsewhere in the orphan circuit.
    I don't know many anime with more realistic violence, you're wrong. And it was absolutely framed as funny when Anja made a funny face and said in her cute, infantile voice "that is a bad guy!". If you had only said "she's desensitized due to her past", that would have been kinda okay to argue, but you first argued it wasn't framed as funny and that's plainly untrue. It's what made me write what I wrote, I wouldn't have written it otherwise.

    [quote]It's shown, not glorified. Just a stylish exposition/introduction of the character, not an endorsement of killings. "This is who Yor is and where she comes from. She has some mental issues". Take it like the story telling you that and you might find more enjoyment. Her character design is cute, though...

    "It's not glorified. Just stylish." - LOL, you get to pick one.

    Is that necessary? To pre-emptively dismiss an entire audience for having maybe different sensibilities than your own undermines your argument. It comes off as virtue signaling, and no good discussion is had from that.

    I'm sure her backstory/work will come up again, and guess what? It's probably going to feed into some jokes that involve people dying; I hope they don't put you off too much.
    "Virtue signaling"? Are we on Twitter?! So that "braindead Americans" triggered you so much? Ok, dude. But I'll tell you something: If my sensibilities don't find murder funny, but American's sensibilities do, then yes, I think my sensibilities are superior aka more normal, more rational. Ofc, I mentioned it long before your posting, that I acknowledge that many people find murder funny, hence why it happens in a myriad of movies and games. So not sure why you brought it up once more. I won't change your sensibilities, but you also definitely won't change mine. And unless we get some satisfying information about her that changes things, I will continue to dislike Yor as a murderous, criminal, evil character. That she cares about her family and is cute towards Lloyd and Anja doesn't balance out with the heinous crimes she committed. To give you my hope for the series: Ideally, Yor would realize that she's been nothing short of a villain, has a mental breakdown about the evil stuff she committed, and when Lloyd finds out, he realizes that while he loves her, he cannot excuse her acts in front of other people, so he decides to run away and and find a new life elsewhere together, with her swearing that she never again will kill anyone. That would be a way to turn her into a character that I can respect. We'll see what happens.

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  3. #63
    AdmiralKage DarthEnderX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MFauli View Post
    But I'll tell you something: If my sensibilities don't find murder funny, but American's sensibilities do, then yes, I think my sensibilities are superior aka more normal, more rational.
    I think it's more the implication that you're framing it as "an American thing", implying that it's somehow not a German thing. As if America is the only country that makes cool action movies about assassins and killers and whatnot. Like, one of the "coolest" assassin movies of all time is The Professional, and that movie is French. And then pretending like nobody in German likes any of that stuff either.


    Not to mention of course the hypocrisy of someone from Germany making blanket statements about other countries' moralities...

  4. #64
    Linerunner MFauli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthEnderX View Post
    Not to mention of course the hypocrisy of someone from Germany making blanket statements about other countries' moralities...
    A hypocrisy that only exists if you're a conservative asshole who, in the year 2022, equates Germans to nazis. Fuck off, thank you.

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  5. #65
    AdmiralKage DarthEnderX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MFauli View Post
    A hypocrisy that only exists if you're a conservative asshole who, in the year 2022, equates Germans to nazis. Fuck off, thank you.
    Ohh, I'm sorry. Does your whole country being generalized BOTHER you? Don't be such an SJW, maaaan!


    Also, you know I've read your Attack On Titan posts, right? If you're any indication, that shit ain't all in the past.
    Last edited by DarthEnderX; Wed, 05-25-2022 at 12:52 PM.

  6. #66
    Linerunner MFauli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthEnderX View Post
    Ohh, I'm sorry. Does your whole country being generalized BOTHER you? Don't be such an SJW, maaaan!


    Also, you know I've read your Attack On Titan posts, right? If you're any indication, that shit ain't all in the past.
    A heartfelt Fuck you.

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  7. #67
    Procacious Polymath Ryllharu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shinta|hikari View Post
    Are people actually defending assassinations being a moral thing? I think they are just saying that Mfauli is overacting over a very common trope.
    We're definitely not moralizing assassination.

    The equivalence is no different from a vegan hating a slaughterhouse, or celebrities and their relationship with paparazzi. The vegan or the celebrity finds the existence of the profession morally repellent, but it is just a job to the person doing it.

    As stated before, the joke is how horribly skewed and occasionally alarming Yor's value sets are, like admiring and fiddling with knives while blushing.

    Quote Originally Posted by MFauli View Post
    "Virtue signaling"? Are we on Twitter?! So that "braindead Americans" triggered you so much? Ok, dude. But I'll tell you something: If my sensibilities don't find murder funny, but American's sensibilities do, then yes, I think my sensibilities are superior aka more normal, more rational. Ofc, I mentioned it long before your posting, that I acknowledge that many people find murder funny, hence why it happens in a myriad of movies and games. So not sure why you brought it up once more. I won't change your sensibilities, but you also definitely won't change mine.
    Your fan-fiction aside (a staple of any anime season!), I don't intend to change your mind, only keep you watching the series.

    As for the moral superiority of German media in comparison to American media...trust me, we watch your films too. They're no less hyperviolent at times, and maybe the only difference is whether or not we glorify it (which our media obviously don't always do). But the allure of depicting violence on screen is shared by both.
    I very distinctly remember the difference between Das Experiment (2001) and our shitty 2010 American remake. Keep in mind, the real-world events that inspired both took place in an American University, and are more closely portrayed in the remake. The hyperviolent version of the events is the German version.

  8. #68
    Linerunner MFauli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryllharu View Post
    Your fan-fiction aside (a staple of any anime season!), I don't intend to change your mind, only keep you watching the series.

    As for the moral superiority of German media in comparison to American media...trust me, we watch your films too. They're no less hyperviolent at times, and maybe the only difference is whether or not we glorify it (which our media obviously don't always do). But the allure of depicting violence on screen is shared by both.
    I very distinctly remember the difference between Das Experiment (2001) and our shitty 2010 American remake. Keep in mind, the real-world events that inspired both took place in an American University, and are more closely portrayed in the remake. The hyperviolent version of the events is the German version.
    First of all, I don't understand why you insinuate that I call German movies superior here. In my original posting, I only criticized American movies.

    But since you chose Das Experiment as an example, that's pretty perfect to illustrate the difference in "most" German and American movies: The violence in Das Experiment is very gruesome, not shying away from showing extreme violence. But you won't find a single artsy camera angle or slomo in that movie. No background music that adds "atmosphere". German movies for the most part depict violence realistically, and that's something I like. Meanwhile, look at American movies. Two movies I really hate for their UNNECESSARY violence are the Kingsman-movies. 99% of the time, they're fantastic James Bond-like adventure movies. But then there's the over-the-top gruesome violence and it ruins it all for me. The first movie opens with a man being literally sliced in half vertically by an assassin's leg blade. The second movie is even more extreme and has a man being thrown into a groundmeat machine, then made burger patty from it and be eaten by someone else. If Kingsman were some horror/slasher movie, I wouldn't say a thing. But this is, as a I said, some nice, fun spy movie - except for these 2-3 scenes. And apparently people find that fun. It's not.

    When violence is the theme of a movie, I can enjoy that. I love the two Deadpool-movies. But when there's a stark contrast between the general atmosphere and story of a movie and the violence it features, that's where I feel morally challenged. And not in a good way. Sometimes being challenged by a movie is a good thing. Be it because it asks you to be very attentive, or because of an uncomfortable topic ("The Hunt" with Mads Mikkelsen, omg). But in other cases, and that's where Spy X Family sits at after 2 episodes for me, the violence just doesn't fit with the rest of the movie/show.

    I don't know if I can explain this better than the above, but to give some examples of what I mean: Imagine you're watching "Back to the Future", but in this version there's a 5 minute-rape scene where Biff rapes Lorraine. Imagine E.T., but in this version there's one scene where E.T. secretly kills and eats a human. Imagine Indiana Jones, but in this version he murders a group of innocent citizens to reach his goal. That's how casual, realistic violence combined with cute comedy makes me feel.

    I don't intend to make you agree with me, but I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

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  9. #69
    Awesome user with default custom title neflight86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MFauli View Post
    Why did you word that entire paragraph so passive-aggressively? You make it sound like I generally prefer German dub over Japanese dub, which isn't true. I also never said the German dub is better than the Japanese dub, just that I found the dub to be good per se.
    None of my words used were disparaging. You mentioned that you enjoyed the German dub, and this story takes place in a country obviously modeled after cold war Germany, so I wanted to comment on that and was genuinely surprised a German dub even existed. I'm glad to hear you like it, that's all. Discourse, not a value statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by MFauli View Post
    And it was absolutely framed as funny when Anja made a funny face and said in her cute, infantile voice "that is a bad guy!". If you had only said "she's desensitized due to her past", that would have been kinda okay to argue, but you first argued it wasn't framed as funny and that's plainly untrue. It's what made me write what I wrote, I wouldn't have written it otherwise.
    I'll re-watch and report back, because I'm remembering it differently. **edit: I was correct, after re-watching, Anya is clearly terrified the entire exchange, even if she notes the 'pistol with a silencer'. She has the dark hashing fried egg eyes showing her on the verge of tears.

    Quote Originally Posted by MFauli View Post
    "It's not glorified. Just stylish." - LOL, you get to pick one.
    Everyone does, actually. A part of being rational actors is that we can see bad things that look cool, like a heist movie, fighting ninjas, or assassins in this case, be impressed by the skill on display, and not decide to follow those footsteps of theft, jutsus and killings. It's a part of entertainment for a long time, and to scrutinize it under to your own arbitrary standards of morality is bound to clash with others'. That's what is happening here.

    Quote Originally Posted by MFauli View Post
    "Virtue signaling"? Are we on Twitter?! So that "braindead Americans" triggered you so much?
    Quote Originally Posted by MFauli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthEnderX View Post
    Ohh, I'm sorry. Does your whole country being generalized BOTHER you? Don't be such an SJW, maaaan!


    Also, you know I've read your Attack On Titan posts, right? If you're any indication, that shit ain't all in the past.
    Quote Originally Posted by MFauli View Post
    A heartfelt Fuck you.
    What am I reading?! No, to be clear, I am unable to be triggered by that statement, but my point still stands that slinging around pejoratives like that poisons people against your message and perspective. It is a disservice to discussion. You have ideas to share. Why not give them the best possible chance of being received?
    Last edited by neflight86; Thu, 05-26-2022 at 05:46 AM. Reason: re-watched the scene in ep 1

  10. #70
    AdmiralKage DarthEnderX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MFauli View Post
    A heartfelt Fuck you.

    ----------

  11. #71
    Linerunner MFauli's Avatar
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    Episode 3:

    Yor gets an orgasm while watching the painting of a guillotine, then another one while holding a regular dinner table knife :/ Look, we have established to have different moral views about this, but Yor CLEARLY enjoys murdering and anything that relates to it.

    Rest of the episode was fun, though. A little slower pace than the first two episodes though, not much happening other then "let's go shopping and have fun". While Lloyd catching the thief looked cool, it went 1000000% against his "a spy mustn't be conspicuous" mantra.

    Oh well, next week should be the school interview episode at long last, looking forward to that.

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  12. #72
    Family Friendly Mascot Buffalobiian's Avatar
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    Ep 08

    ------------------------







    Finally, Yuri Briar - a real threat (kind of).

    If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~

  13. #73
    Procacious Polymath Ryllharu's Avatar
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    It's also a good change from Anya reading everyone's mind to Twilight displaying his competence as a spy and figuring out Yuri on his own. Yuri was too drunk by that time to recognize that Twilight repeated all the same conversation lines right back at him.

    Yes, both Briar siblings are fucked up. They're both very competent at what they do, while also both being idiots.

    Flashback Yor covered in someone else's blood in every one of Yuri's memories of how caring she is to him is kinda funny though. The absurdity of it.

  14. #74
    AdmiralKage DarthEnderX's Avatar
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    Yeah, sending Anya to bed was very obviously a writing choice to get her out of the way so her mind reading wouldn't be used in this interaction, because it be a huge thing for her character to know all that.

  15. #75
    Awesome user with default custom title KrayZ33's Avatar
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    Seeing this discussion from earlier, it can't possibly be lost on everyone that Yor and Loid are 2 sides of the same coin, right? If not, then I would have used that as an argument to openly show the duality of the statement which was made.

    They literally both just do whatever they are being told by the goverment. The only difference is that we only get to see this from Westania's PoV and whatever they use as propaganda right now.

    "We want to prevent this war, Ostania wants to start it".

    So if someone has a problem with Yor, someone who is clearly manipulated by another party to do these things (they could literally have told her that she has to do this for her brother and she would do it and enjoy it because she was *trained* to enjoy it), then they should have the same problem with Loid, who has no problem when it comes to killing or eliminating his targets either... or using children for his missions for that matter. (No problems about that MFauli? Weird. What do you think will happen to Anya if Loid messes up and they are found out? You did see what happened in episode 2, right?)


    And btw, Yor is *not* able to do any job whatsoever properly.
    She would add a booger to her superiors coffee because she thinks it would make it taste better.
    Obviously not just because she is dumb, but also because she has never gotten any training whatsoever.
    While her brothers shares some quirks, he is obviously much more capable.
    Yor gave that kind of development "up".

    Some stuff is obviously added because it's funny (Yor being extremely gullible and a bit of a doofus for example) but the details are out there to make that stuff believable.
    The persona switch whenever she is at "work" or when she stopped the stampede at Eden aren't just for show and for the rule of cool, I'm pretty certain it means something too..

    This show is probably not as "light" as someone might think.
    The "SS..S(?)" scene we were shown was de-facto torture on TV in the latest episode as well btw and would probably immediatly get the rating up to 16+.
    I was actually suprised that they showed it in such detail as well and not just "implied" everything.


    Also: Your Signature - the character that it shows - and the things you are saying about Yor right now.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; Mon, 05-30-2022 at 12:36 AM.

  16. #76
    Awesome user with default custom title KrayZ33's Avatar
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    Ep 09

    -----------------------------------------------

    my heart exploded, Yor is a cutie.

  17. #77
    Burning out, no really... David75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Ep 09

    -----------------------------------------------

    my heart exploded, Yor is a cutie.
    It exploded after one of Yor's chest thrust... haha

    All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.

  18. #78
    Procacious Polymath Ryllharu's Avatar
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    Yor (as a reminder, a cold-blooded assassin) going from nervous flinching at the touch of her ladykiller fake-husband to getting wasted, threatening her brother for attempting to interfere, and going into pure man-eater mode and dominating Loid...all in under a minute. This is peak comedy storyboarding.

    Yuri's blood and tears intermixing in the same stream down his face! He got NTR'd but is still such a siscon that he accepted it immediately.

    There's reasons this show is as popular as it is. This was fully unloaded dramedy in 5 minutes.

    I also appreciated that Yor's bad cooking is normal, only shades of browns and burnt. Not the anime cliche purple (or neon pink bouncy gelatin regardless of its original form).

    Even the detail of Anya rubbing her eyes and the iris being visible as she does it. Whether this was a Cloverworks or Studio WIT episode, they're not messing around!

  19. #79
    I love you all! I need to catch up on anime, maybe this oneee.
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  20. #80
    Yorha Unit- shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    OMG, you have returned! How goes things?

    I know it's off topic, but the mods can move it if they wish.
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